On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 3:31 PM Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote: > > A couple of thoughts:
And a couple of thoughts on top of that. > Podlings are not permitted to call themselves "Apache Foo" because they are > not yet full Apache projects. Correct. The I way I see this thread is this: *when it comes to releases*, there's always been two camps in Incubator. One thinks that Incubator is a TLP just like Apache Commons that happens to produce release artifacts that have nothing in common (just like Apache Commons' JXPath has very little to do with Compress and). A second camp thinks that Incubator is actually a special construct within a foundation (after all, if it was just like Apache Commons why would we make them put DISCLAIMER into release tarballs?). It seems that David is closer to the 1st camp, and Rich and I are closer to the 2nd. Looking at the community benefits, I really think we should acknowledge that Incubator is a special construct and optimize that special construct for a particular outcome: which is effectiveness of the graduation process. > While in the incubator we should expect podlibgs to fail at the rules. > They're new to them and many of them feel arbitrary, even capricious, to > those coming in from outside. We should make it safe to fail until they are > ready to graduate. We should nurture them as long as they are moving > towards that goal. Yup. > I cannot disagree with your reading of our resolutions. But I wonder if > that reality is producing good citizen projects or a bunch of resentful > people following rules they don't understand or embrace because they know > they have to. > > Zipkin is only the latest project which clearly didn't get it and has left > angry. I would rather a project realize that they don't fit and be able to > leave with their dignity without having also to leave hating what we stand > for. > > I want our new graduates to love and understand the ASF not merely tolerate > it. > > I want the incubator to respond to failure with gentle correction rather > than scoldings. > > Specifically I think podlings should be able to produce releases that are > not asf complient and have them clearly labeled as such. Because they are > not TLPs yet and so cannot be held to the same standard. This must be > accompanied by a movement towards being a TLP, not some eternal incubation. With my IPMC member hat on -- huge +1 to the above. With my VP Legal hat on: I have no dog in this race. The IPMC needs to make a *business* (well, community in this case) decision and then we can work with a risk profile of that decision. Like I said -- the decision to make is: 1st vs. 2nd camp. Thanks, Roman. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
