+1
I haven't experienced micromanagement as a mentor. Quite the opposite.
If it all comes down the mentors and with the AWOL rate the mentoring
can become a very few opinions. I think tegher is an implicit
assumption of experienced mentors here.
If more is pushed down to the mentors, I've have to think carefully
about mentoring. Both the increased expectations and the increased need
to be available at certain times. I personally would not feel I could
mentor any podling that wasn't similar in structure to some TLP I'm
involved in. Otherwise I simply haven't the breadth of experience to be
useful and could become hindrance/danger.
Bootstrap requires a burst of time and it's quite important to get that
streamlined. The core of L&N could be made more algorithmic for many
podlings.
Andy
On 03/08/15 20:51, Julian Hyde wrote:
In my experience incubating Calcite, the “overhead” was mostly the
infrastructure and process, not politics. (If you think the incubator is
political, you haven’t seen politics…) The process is necessary (mostly) to
ensure clean IP. The infrastructure, less so. So, if we’re talking about how to
reduce the burden on podlings, those are the areas I would focus on.
Roman’s proposed reform places more responsibility on podling PMCs and, by
implication, the mentors embedded in those PMCs. I am not sure how well that
would work in practice given the ongoing problem of absentee mentors. The IPMC
epitomizes the “it takes a village to raise a child”, in particular with
village elders stepping in with help/advice from time to time. It would be a
shame to lose that.
Julian
On Aug 3, 2015, at 12:23 PM, Ross Gardler <ross.gard...@microsoft.com> wrote:
" This is that proverbial "political overhead" that a lot of folks are accusing ASF
of and cite as a reason of not going into the foundation. Which is grossly unfair at the board
level, but unfortunately seems to be very true at IPMC level today."
+1000
-----Original Message-----
From: shaposh...@gmail.com [mailto:shaposh...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Roman
Shaposhnik
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 12:13 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Joe Brockmeier <j...@zonker.net> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015, at 10:05 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
I've been waiting for a bout a week for other to chime in, but it
seems that nobody has so I'll repeat my question as of a week ago:
what would be the effective way to change the status quo around IPMC
an make it more board like?
Perhaps we can start from making the release policy actually make
sense along the lines that Ross has outlined. I guess I can propose a
change to the current policies (or to Ross'
point just get it back from the wayback machine :-)).
But seriously, who else thinks the movement towards empowering PPMCs
and making IPMC very much like the board makes sense?
I think the thread fizzled because there's not a lot of support for
the idea. At least, on my end, I'm not in favor.
Yup. I believe this to be an unfortunate (at least from my standpoint) but and
extremely fair observation.
As far as I'm concerned the issue of R&Rs of IPMC is in a state of a stalemate right now. We
clearly have a "everything's fine lets just add more policy" constituency vs. "IPMC
should be small and more board like" crowd.
The good news is that we're all united on making sure that the foundation is
growing by podlings making progress and graduating to TLPs. The bad news is
that because of the current mentality I don't see the types of unfortunate
threads that Ignite just went through going away anytime soon.
This is that proverbial "political overhead" that a lot of folks are accusing
ASF of and cite as a reason of not going into the foundation. Which is grossly unfair at
the board level, but unfortunately seems to be very true at IPMC level today.
It is clear to me that the change has very little chance of coming from within
IPMC.
Thanks,
Roman.
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