Hi Ted, Thanks. One thing after doing some of my own digging:
TEZ has a large JIRA repository and apparently a lot of the work is going on there: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TEZ-1218?jql=project%20%3D%20TEZ Over 1200 issues to that tune as well. This is validated by the following mail lists: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-tez-issues/ So looks like a *lot* of the development is occurring on list. I'm hoping others in the Tez community can step up and also provide similar data and factoids. Cheers, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org> Date: Monday, June 23, 2014 12:50 AM To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org> Cc: "d...@tez.incubator.apache.org" <d...@tez.incubator.apache.org> Subject: Re: Tez graduation [Was: Request for mentor assessment] >Let me repeat that my desired outcome here is Tez graduation. > >It is just that I want to see Tez graduate as a viable project. > > > > >On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 12:43 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) < >chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > >> Thanks Ted, these are all important points that require responses. I >>have >> CC'ed the dev@tez.i.a.o >> list, where I hope the Tez community can respond to your points below in >> detail. >> >> Guys, please see Ted's comments below and please try to address them in >> light of the >> >> recent [DISCUSS] Graduation thread I raised. It's fine if the answer to >> some of the >> points is (1) we plan on addressing them by X date, with Y action; (2) >>we >> don't think >> this is a valid point *because* ..*explanation*; (3) you didn't consider >> this factoid >> _here_, etc. >> >> I'm hoping the other mentors on the project can step up and have some >> insight >> into the below. I look forward to the discussion. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com> >> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org> >> Date: Monday, June 23, 2014 12:12 AM >> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org> >> Subject: Re: Tez graduation [Was: Request for mentor assessment] >> >> >On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) < >> >chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: >> > >> >> >Regardless of whether it is an explicit requirement to have some >> >>specific >> >> >level of diversity, there is a requirement that the group >>demonstrate >> >> >community building. >> >> >> >> I'm also sympathetic to this: you can see my thread here where >> >>originally >> >> I didn't >> >> think much had been going on until I explicitly checked the lists and >> >>went >> >> through >> >> the archives and saw ~7 IIRC PPMC members/committers added since >> >>entering >> >> [1]. That's >> >> community building regardless of what affiliation those new members >>came >> >> from. >> >> >> >> The other metrics and statistics (health of the mailing lists/open >> >> discussions have >> >> been increasing; releases have been made, etc.) are all there and >> >>outlined >> >> in [1]. >> > >> > >> >As I read the private list, there has been absolutely no effort at >>adding >> >committers until last month when the topic of graduation has come up. >> >There >> >is no substantive discussion on the list of the potential committers, >>but >> >simply rather perfunctory +1 votes. >> > >> >In reading the thread about whether there should be/is a diversity >> >requirement, I come to a bit of a different conclusion as well. What I >> >see >> >in the discussion is that the participants seem to agree that >> > >> >- there should not be a simple count-based diversity measure because >>this >> >would dissuade valuable commercial contributions >> > >> >- the chance/likelihood of project failure due to a dominant commercial >> >contributor pulling out should not be considered since project >>dormancy or >> >retirement isn't a bad thing. Better to try and fail than never try. >> > >> >- there is clear recognition of the risk of commercial companies >>inventing >> >a project not so much because of a desire to build community but >>rather as >> >a marketing maneuver. >> > >> >- there is no mention of the problems that have arisen in the Hadoop >> >groups >> >relative to use of groups and Apache trademarks for marketing purposes. >> > >> >I don't want to impute motives to actions since I cannot know what >>others >> >hold in their hearts, but I don't see evidence of efforts to really >>build >> >the community. There was one meat-space meetup a year ago. There have >> >been a few presentations of what Tez is. >> > >> >I do see a fair number of public statements of the form "Tez is >> >Hortonworks >> >answer to Impala" or "The future of Hadoop runs on Tez", most of which >> >seem >> >to come out of Hortonworks' marketing department. >> > >> >In looking at the dev list back to September of last year, I see a >>large >> >number of procedural messages (votes, results, release mechanics), a >>few >> >user questions (NPE in such and so, how do I install) and very few >>design >> >discussions. There was one thread last November about combiners, >>another >> >in January about map parallelism, and one more in March about reducer >> >parallelism. To me this looks a lot like a project where all design >> >discussions are occurring off-list. >> > >> >What I would like to see would include >> > >> >- a strong effort on the part of Tez to bring all design and >> >implementation >> >discussions to the list, >> > >> >- continuous community engagement efforts such as weekly hangouts in >> >different timezones to help new contributors understand what is >>happening >> >technically in the project in an interactive setting >> > >> >- lots of public talks focussed on how outsiders can contribute and how >> >the >> >design works >> > >> >- cross posting on related projects offering cross pollination >> >opportunities. Such related groups might be Drill, Optiq, Tajo and >>Spark. >> > These postings would say things like "how could you guys help us with >> >Tez" >> >or "Tez has this and such, would that be helpful to you guys". >> > >> >- inviting contributors from related projects to give technical >> >presentations in the context of Tez >> > >> >Now, my searches have been fairly cursory and could have missed >>important >> >activities, but I have a bit of a hard time believing that I have >>missed >> >major efforts along these lines. >> > >> >Based on this evidence, it really does look to me like Tez is a purely >> >commercial development masquerading as an Apache community. >> > >> >I agree that superficial diversity metrics are counter-productive, but >>I >> >also assert that there isn't any obvious evidence of serious community >> >building here and there is significant evidence that building community >> >isn't even the point of the project. That *is* a substantive issue >> >relative to graduation. >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
