In reference to Gilles' question about why we normally ask podling to take on a bit of pain for double-migration, I think Leo answered that very well [on this other thread]. That the reason focuses mostly around making representations to users. "this is an Incubator project, not a full Apache project"
Or at a minimum, he provides a great place for us to start answering *why* we ask podlings to do this. I believe that we have given Subversion a "pass" for a several reasons (mostly restated/clarified from Leo's email): 1) we all believe Subversion will graudate, so we have no risk around this podling pretending/representing an Apache project/name and then bailing out 2) we do not expect Subversion to remain long (my goal: graudate December; worst case January), so the need for particular care around branding is not worth the cost for such a short duration 3) we trust that Subversion will engage press/PR properly and not make false representations about its incubation status When typical podlings stay in incubation for a year at a time, that represents a lot of exposure time. Managing the brand/incubation-status over that duration is important, so (thus) the extra controls. Okay. I *think* that is pretty much the background/rationale (please refine/add/etc). But that said, we recognize the pain. Are there *other* ways that we can achieve the same effects without the double-move? (of lists and repos) Are there avenues of communication that Incubator can manage? For example, rather than putting @incubator.apache.org in all the mailing lists, can it have a mandatory header/footer for each message? Can the repository have a big README.INCUBATION at the root? The Incubator still has control of all releases, so it still can manage branding on all releases. Can we tweak ViewVC to dynamically insert a header "This repository area is part of an Apache Incubator podling". etc etc. Cheers, -g ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Leo Simons <m...@leosimons.com> Date: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 19:17 Subject: Re: Two other issues to discuss for Subversion To: general@incubator.apache.org On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com> wrote: > There are two other issues to discuss for the Subversion podling: > > * moving the mailing lists directly to @subversion.apache.org > * placing the source code at /subversion/ rather than /incubator/subversion/ > > We are hoping to minimize overall disruption to the community with a > move to incubator space, then a move to apache space. I think a good thing we started here is to dig back in memory to find the core reasons why the process is what it is and make sure we stick to what's important. I think we have two main reasons to have the "incubator" name in most those places normally: 1) make clear to users what the status of a project is, i.e. where incubation is implying that a project may not become an apache project or that it may not be quite safe legally yet or it may not have a healthy community behind it or we don't have the trademarks yet or whatever 2) protect the apache brand (you know...if an incubating project goes up in flames, well, that's ok, we told you that might happen) 3) make it easier to keep a tight leash on PR I would argue we are not very worried about subversion being "unsafe for use by the general public" :-). Similarly, the main thing that would hurt our brand is if the subversion community would decide to cancel the incubation process (because apache really sucks, you know...). The most important thing these days is probably clear messaging on the relevant website(s). So, as long as y'all make sure to do that good stuff (be clear to users and protect the involved brands), I think what infrastructure goes where exactly, can be up to infra@, in this case. And y'all are talking to PRC anyway about any press stuff. I see no real risks. cheers, Leo --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
