robert burrell donkin wrote:
On 10/18/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 10/18/06, Greg Stein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> You said that you have run Tomcat on top of Harmony. Why can't you
>> produce a release such that I can throw the Tomcat jar at it, too?
>> Sure, it is a developer release, but it let's non-Harmony folks play
>> with your project.
>
> i'd like to give harmony a spin as well :-)
Go for it. We're really interested in people's feedback.
i will do once there's something more than a snapshot :-)
That's up to you, of course.
>> Is there a specific problem with producing a developer release?
>
> releases come in many forms :-)
>
> it's usual to think of an easy-to-use ready-to-run binary aimed at end
> users called something like httpd-2.0.59. i agree that harmony isn't
> ready for something like that nor would the effort of producing
> something like that be at all worthwhile.
>
> but at an essential level, all that's require is to vote, tag the
> source and create a tarball of the tagged source.
>
> harmony already does something similar for daily snapshots. IMHO the
> next step would be to start cutting milestones each week or two so
> they can be picked up with a little more certainty than the daily
> snapshots. perhaps name them after the week they were cut
> (harmony-M3406, say).
>
> i think harmony is more than ready to take this step.
I think that the core issue is "can the community govern itself in an
Apache manner", which is the core driver behind the "do a release"
suggestion. I'm guessing that the "do a release" suggestion is simply a
mechanism for PMC members to get information on which to make a decision.
yep
(but i do think harmony should start creating milestones very soon)
This is the thing I don't get - Harmony's choices for how and when we do
milestones is completely orthogonal to the values of a healthy,
meritocratic, collaborative community that the incubator is tasked with
creating. The fact that we are making these choices, and not just
following a rote procedure, says something to the health and well-being
of Harmony, IMO.
Will you (and others that have questions) be satisfied if other mentors
provide similar assessments as I have as to community status and ability
to self-govern?
i can speak only for myself. i've been subscribed to harmony for many
months and am convinced on both those counts.
the source is the heart of any apache release. most issues with
releases are actually issues with the source. a community that does
not understand how to create source that can be released cannot (in my
opinion) graduate.
But then you are aware that we always have been very careful about our
source. We have created oversight processes specifically tailored to
special IP issues we face, and consider this on every contribution, and
every third- party dependency we use.
personally speaking, (in this case) i'd probably be satisfied to
review a snapshot or the tree rather than a sample release but is less
convenient and risks the graduation vote becoming messy.so, i think
that a vote and tag would be cleaner and easier. i'll try to find some
time in the next few days to go through one of the snapshots.
I am hoping that the statements from the other mentors will be more than
sufficient to convince you and others that have these doubts. Stefano
has written one, and I've pinged Dims and Leo to also post their
thoughts, whatever they are. You can guess mine, of course :) (You can
get a preview of the others by reading the recent harmony-private traffic)
I'm not trying to be difficult. I just was trying to indicate that there
are other methods - more complete methods IMO - of determining community
health, and quite frankly, while releasing properly is very important, I
think that the Harmony community has demonstrated that it works together
collaboratively, understands issues regarding source licensing and
provenance, dependency licensing, and how to play with each other in a
positive and productive way.
If the mentor statements aren't enough, I'm happy to help the community
through a release process demonstration tomorrow, but I really hope, as
an ASF member and Incubator PMC member, that we're careful not to be too
prescriptive, and lean toward a more holistic approach to rating
health and success capability of the podlings under our oversight.
geir
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