On 12/29/05, Greg Stein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Dec 28, 2005 at 01:12:52PM +1100, David Crossley wrote: > >... > > If people have issues with Forrest, then please take them > > to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list. It is totally unfair > > to a new project to just criticise it from afar. We get > > very few emails to the user mailing list about any issues > > with Forrest. This seems to be especially the case with > > committers from Apache projects that decided to use Forrest. > >... > > There are zero postings from Leo to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > > one or two relevant ones to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Welcome to our community. We are free from being grounded in any reality. We are free from talking in the concrete, preferring instead to make baseless general statements. Over the years our egos have grown so large that we no longer see a need to ask questions even though we don't know the answers. Instead, we'll bitch and complain and blame it on our fellow community member's crappy tool. Our time is so valuable that we'd prefer to grossly over-exaggerate how bad the tool is than actually try to help fellow members of our community make it better -- that's there problem, after all, and it's tons easier to just spout nonsense than actually contribute to *someone else's* problem. This introduction to community isn't from an Apache novice like me, it's what I've learned by watching those more experienced old-timers that I have so much respect for... Dissappointing to say the least... Now on to the hyperbole... > The last time that I had to update the > incubator site, I had to download a JRE for my box. C'mon, it's a java-based app after all. I assume this was your first time ever running forrest or any other java app? That you lump *having* to download a JRE in with Forrest's issues just shows me that you're not really trying to help at all, just adding a little noise to make your point a little stronger I suppose. Same thing will happen with this new Super Simple Tool -- you'll have to download a python interpreter. > Then I had to > *checkout* about dozen *megabytes* of various java projects. I'm > talking about megabytes of *source* code. I really don't know why we ship the little bit of source code with Forrest to be honest -- doesn't make much since. To put your flagrant hyperbole into perspective though, your megabytes==140k. Yep, Forrest 0.7 has a whopping 140k of source code. We do have numerous jars that add considerably to the size being ~29M -- we should really try to trim that down considerably before our 1.0 release. > That got built into > something like another 60 megabytes over the next 30 minutes. A couple thoughts come to mind here... If you're a user, why are you building it anyway -- just use the distribution. As I said, 0.7 is ~29M built, I don't know how that got doubled on your machine. As to the 30 minutes, did you figure out how to get a JRE on that Commodore 64 or something? It consistently takes ~9 seconds to build forrest on my box which is not a high-end machine by any stretch. Bottom line: You appear to be doing several things wrong here and you could help yourself, Forrest, and the ASF community a great deal by simply asking instead of hyperbolizing. > Then I > had to get the thing running against my Incubator site checkout. Once > I got it all working, then I was able to make my 10-line edit. I think David said that the Incubator is using HTML as source so all this was for nothing, you could have simply made your edits. Again, no one is too much of an expert to ask questions every now and then. All in all, I'm incredibly dissappointed with some of the older and wiser folks' apparent idea of community. Here, I'm not talking so much about a tool. I'm talking about just a total lack of respect and helpfulness. I mean, if folks are too lazy to RTFM or learn how to do things or ask questions.. fine... but why trash the work of fellow community members because of your own laziness? I think all of the folks on Forrest openly admit to its blemishes (and it has plenty), more so than other projects I think. But it's unfortunate to hear fellow community members spout issues that indicate a lack of understanding rather than real issues and to use gross exaggeration/hyperbole to make the non-issue a appear a little stronger. (non-binding) +0 to dumping Forrest in the incubator... --tim --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
