Comments in-line...
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On May 29, 2005, at 8:21 AM, Eddie ONeil wrote:
All--
There has been some confusion publicly and privately about the JSR
181 TCK issues and the WSM part of Beehive.
The goals of WSM are to implement the JSR 181 specification and to
provide a generic annotation processor for the 181 annotations. In
addition, there is a layer that implements JSR 181 features for the
Axis web service stack.
The JSR 181 specification is being developed under the JCP 2.6
process and has reached the "Final Approval Ballot" stage. But, this
is not the *final* release of the specification. This means that the
spec is not completely finished and that the RI and TCK are not
available.
Both Craig and Geir have confirmed that in order to ship a "final"
version of Beehive that claims to implement JSR 181, we must pass the
JSR 181 TCK. Currently, we are blocked on even starting this work
because the TCK has not been released. I've exchanged some mail with
Geir, and once the TCK is available, he will help us obtain it through
Apache channels and we can start the process of passing the TCK. The
TCK work will be done at Apache under NDA.
The implication here is that Beehive (NetUI + Controls + WSM) can
not go "final" as a whole until the TCK has been released and WSM has
passed.
Well, where there's a will...
what are you implementing now? A pre-final spec that's public?
Yes, I think so -- hopefully it's the spec that's available here:
http://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/pfd/jsr181/index.html
but I've not been that involved in the WSM third and could be wrong
about that...
Right now, we have the awful situation in the JCP that any pre-final
spec isn't licensed for implementation. However, Oracle, JBoss and
Hibernate are shipping
example implementations of the EJB3 public draft (which I think is a
good thing in terms of getting implementations out for people to play
with...)
However, that's not really permitted, and quite frankly, theoretically
dangerous because any IP contributed to the spec by the expert group
experts has not been licensed for use in the spec - that only happens
when the spec is final, and the spec lead is granted right to license
the IP for compatible implementations.
So the question here is "what do we do?"
We can
a) just do it and violate the license (I'm not for that)
b) wait until the TCK is complete (that works, but holds you up)
c) try to find some permission.
I'm happy to work on (c) for you, but I don't think it's mechanically
possible under the terms of the governing procedure of the JCP - we'd
have to approach each expert on the EG for 181 and get them to grant us
permission, if we wanted to be accurate and complete.
Agreed, this seems difficult especially since the 181 EG seems close to
finishing (they are after all past "Final Approval Ballot") and should
be shipping soon-ish...
Alternate suggestions welcome.
The purpose of this milestone was to provide incremental progress
toward a 1.0-final release of the stable NetUI and Controls parts of
Beehive, Then, we'd do a subsequent Beehive release that has JSR 181
TCK compliance.
So, it seems to me that the passing the TCK and doing a milestone
release are orthogonal until we consider doing a release that doesn't
include WSM.
It would certainly be possible to release a version of Beehive that
had only the NetUI + Controls bits and let the WSM part continue to
bake until the TCK becomes available and is passed. WSM could then be
included in a later release. Thoughts about this are welcome;
honestly, I'd be fine with this approach.
That works completely. And if you made it so that the WSM part was
buildable or gettable from a nightly, and then just used w/o any claims
of completeness or status on your part, then it's probably not an issue
- it's clear how OSS is developed, and that's just a natural part of
the process.
But, I do think that we should complete the current milestone
release in order to get something new out there.
+1
If you are calling this a milestone increment rather than a real "we're
complete and support this" release, then by all means, throw in the
JSR-181 stuff. We do this in Apache Geronimom all the time, and it's
clear that our milestone releases are not J2EE 1.4 compliant.
Yeah, I agree with this direction, and once the current release is done
in a couple of days, we'll start exploring this option on [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No reason to have WSM artificially hold us up.
:)
geir
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