On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 18:39:22 +0100, Ceki Gülcü <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Although many ASF members are represented in the incubator, it is not > representative of the ASF because it is more coercive than the rest of > the foundation. Some of the coercion is unavoidable, e.g. IP issues, > some of it mildly irritating, e.g. forrest, and then there is the > community requirement.
Not sure I understand this. Only one here that would seem to cause a problem would be the forrest bit. If incubating a project, I would definitely want to minimize the amount of time spent having to do forrest things. I assume the project's website itself does not need to be in Forrest, just their status page. Roller will be interesting as their site runs on Roller :) > By insisting heavily on community building and rigid rules like 3+ > committers, the ASF may be undermining the very thing it is trying to > cultivate. Developers are drawn to the ASF in order to develop I think it goes: 1 person = despot 2 people = unresolvable argument 3 people = community We need 3 people so that consensus may be reached when there is disagreement. > software in a friendly environment and to some extent to benefit from > the ASF brand. If the friendly environment is diluted by coercion and > excessive bureaucracy, developers may feel prisoner in something they This is definitely a meme that is out there, Apache = bureaucracy. We need to show that a) the bureacracy is minimal, and b) it creates communities that live on when their original leader departs. > don't understand. With his sense of liberty injured, the developer is > left only with one advantage, the Apache brand. Apache may still be > deemed an attractive proposal, but not as attractive as thought > initially. And if the developer were to then join, only coming for the Apache brand, I think we would not want to have them here. Exploring Jakarta's quieter side, I've found views on the subproject management that had definitely had no exposure to the Apache way. One committer spoke of another committer as being their Apache contact, while another committer apologised for his inability to work on the codebase anymore and said he would be adding new committers to replace him soon. This shows the need for the Incubator, and then the next step just becomes what the Incubator should teach. > The point I am trying to make is that you can't make someone like ice > cream. Most people love it but if you force it on them, they'll end up > being repulsed by it. Yep. We need to have people view it as a toothbrush analogy and not ice cream. We enforce cleaning your teeth upon the incubatees because it is good for them, and explain why. Hen --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
