Hello Roberta,

In that case, more text is needed to explain in Section 2.8, and
the related theft of service concern also needs to be discussed in
that section and/or the Security Considerations section.

Thanks,
--David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Maglione Roberta [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 3:18 AM
> To: Black, David; Lee, Yiu; 'draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-
> [email protected]'
> Cc: Ralph Droms; [email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-deployment-06
> 
> Hello Yiu and David,
> regarding point 5:
> 
> > [YL] Good catch. Actually I believe AFTR "does" have both IPv4 and
> > IPv6 to identify the customer. I suggest we remove
> >
> > "but it will potentially introduce some additional complexity because
> >    the AFTR does not have detailed customer identity information."
> 
> The point related to the accounting is different: what I meant here with
> accounting is RADIUS based accounting, commonly used in Broadband networks.
> 
> Today RADIUS accounting is done at the BNG level, the problem with the
> introduction of the AFTR is that the AFTR does not interact with AAA/RADIUS
> Server for the initial authentication/authorization/accounting phase because
> the authentication/authorization/accounting process happens between BNG and
> RADIUS Server when the session comes up.
> The ATFR is not able to perform RADIUS accounting because as it does not
> interact with the RADIUS Server it does not have " detailed customer identity
> information" for example it does know the accounting session ID associated to
> that session, that's why it cannot do detailed accounting for each single
> subscriber even if the ATFR can still correlated IPv6 and IPv4 traffic
> belonging to the same user.
> 
> This is an important operational issue, I would suggest to keep this concept.
> If you think is needed I can add some lines of text in order to clarify this
> point.
> 
> Thanks
> Regards,
> Roberta
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Black, David [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 3:12 AM
> To: Lee, Yiu; Maglione Roberta; [email protected];
> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; Ralph Droms; Black, David
> Subject: RE: Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-deployment-06
> 
> Yiu,
> 
> Thank you for your responses - most of them look fine, and in
> particular anything that I don't comment on here is acceptable to me.
> 
> > [YL] In 2.2, we will add:
> >
> > "Note that reassembly at Tunnel Exit-Point is resource
> >       intensive. A large number of B4 may terminate on the same AFTR. If
> many B4
> >       fragment the packets, it would increase sufficient load to the AFTR
> for
> >       reassembly. We recommend the operator should increase the MTU size of
> the IPv6
> >       network between B4 and AFTR to avoid fragmentation."
> 
> I would change "is" to "may be" in the first line.
> 
> > >[5] Section 2.8 discusses IPv4 accounting at the AFTR, but notes that
> > >"the AFTR does not have detailed customer identity information."  Does
> > >that create a theft of service possibility?  If so, that possibility
> > >should be mentioned as a security consideration.  Also, Section 2.8
> > >ought to be expanded with a sentence or two explaining why the AFTR
> > >does not have that identity information, and in particular to explain
> > >whether and why it is unreasonable in some or all cases to expect
> > >that customer identity information be provided to the AFTR as part
> > >of provisioning each customer's softwire.
> >
> > [YL] Good catch. Actually I believe AFTR "does" have both IPv4 and IPv6 to
> > identify the customer. I suggest we remove
> >
> > "but it will potentially introduce some additional complexity because
> >    the AFTR does not have detailed customer identity information."
> 
> That's definitely an easy way to address that issue, and it's fine with me.
> 
> > >Section 2.3 on MTU Considerations could usefully mention MTU discovery
> > >techniques, as possibilities for customer IPv4 traffic to adapt to a
> > >smaller IPv4 MTU.  If this is done, it would be useful to mention
> > >RFC 4821 in addition to the mention of RFC 1191 in RFC 6333.
> >
> > [YL] We would consider RFC 4821. However, the challenge is I don't have
> > information how many current OS support RFC 4821. Since DS-lite is a
> > transition technology, it would be unreasonable to ask the OS company to
> > implement RFC 4821 for DS-lite.
> 
> That's ok - this was a nit.
> 
> > >- Are one or both types of logging recommended?
> >
> > [YL] We tempted to recommend source-specific log. However, some regulators
> > require to use both and the regulations vary country from country, this is
> > why we left it open and let the operators to decide.
> 
> Please add a version of your explanation to the draft.
> 
> > >In Section 2.7, I'm having a hard time understanding which traffic is
> > >intended to be subject to the Outgoing Policies and the Incoming Policies.
> > >Expanding each of those two bullets to explain what traffic is subject
> > >to each class of policies would help.
> >
> > [YL] Does this help?
> >
> > Outgoing Policies apply to packets originating from B4 to IPv4 network.
> > Incoming Policies apply to packets originating from IPv4 network to B4.
> 
> Yes, that's clearer, although the B4 is not the network endpoint for any
> of that traffic.  I suggest:
> 
> Outgoing Policies apply to packets originating from behind the B4 with
> a destination on the IPv4 network.
> 
> Incoming Policies apply to packets originating from the IPv4 network to
> a destination behind the B4.
> 
> Thanks,
> --David
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lee, Yiu [mailto:[email protected]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:46 PM
> > To: Black, David; [email protected]; [email protected];
> > [email protected]; [email protected]; gen-
> [email protected]
> > Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; Ralph Droms
> > Subject: Re: Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-deployment-06
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Thanks very much for review the draft. Comments inline.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Yiu
> >
> > On 10/15/12 7:10 PM, "Black, David" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on
> > >Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at
> > ><http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
> > >
> > >Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments
> > >you may receive.
> > >
> > >Document: draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-deployment-06
> > >Reviewer: David L. Black
> > >Review Date: October 15, 2012
> > >IETF LC End Date: October 16, 2012
> > >IESG Telechat Date: October 25, 2012
> > >
> > >Summary:
> > >
> > >This draft is on the right track but has open issues, described in the
> > >review.
> > >
> > >This is a generally well-written draft that expands considerably on the
> brief
> > >deployment considerations for DS-Lite in Appendix A of RFC 6333.  The draft
> > >is clear and reasonably well-written, and a significant improvement on that
> > >RFC 6333 Appendix, although an understanding of RFC 6333 is necessary to
> > >understand this draft, which seems completely reasonable.
> > >
> > >The B4 and AFTR acronyms are clever - kudos to whomever came up with
> > >those.
> > >
> > >I found five open issues, all of which are minor.
> > >
> > >Minor Issues:
> > >
> > >[1] Ironically, the first issue is that something should be said about
> > >the relationship of this draft to Appendix A of RFC 6333.  It probably
> > >suffices to say that this draft expands on the material in that Appendix,
> > >as I see no need to specify that this draft updates RFC 6333 solely to
> > >change non-normative material in an Appendix.
> >
> > [YL] In "Overview", we will add:
> >
> > "This document expands Appendix A of RFC6333 and discusses various
> > DS-Lite deployment considerations for operators."
> >
> > >
> > >[2] The MTU increase technique in Section 2.2 is a "may", which is
> > >consistent with Section 5.3 of RFC 6333.  OTOH, Section 2.2 of this
> > >draft should also discuss the AFTR resource exhaustion concern that
> > >described in Section 6.3 of RFC 6333, as that is a potential
> > >operational reason for an ISP to increase MTU size (e.g., if customer
> > >sourcing of large IPv4 packets is not sufficiently rare).
> >
> > [YL] In 2.2, we will add:
> >
> > "Note that reassembly at Tunnel Exit-Point is resource
> >       intensive. A large number of B4 may terminate on the same AFTR. If
> many B4
> >       fragment the packets, it would increase sufficient load to the AFTR
> for
> >       reassembly. We recommend the operator should increase the MTU size of
> the IPv6
> >       network between B4 and AFTR to avoid fragmentation."
> >
> > >
> > >[3] Section 2.7 refers to "the AFTR's internal interface".  There may be
> > >two internal interfaces, the physical IPv6 interface (outer header) and
> > >the tunnel's IPv4 interface (inner header).  The text should be clarified
> > >to indicate which interface is involved - it appears that the AFTR's
> > >physical IPv6 interface is intended in this section.
> >
> > [YL] We replace "internal" to "IPv6"
> >
> > >
> > >[4] Section 2.7 cites RFC 6333 for use of DHCPv6 with DS-Lite.  RFC 6334
> > >should be cited - either in addition to or instead of RFC 6333.
> >
> > [YL] Fixed
> >
> > >
> > >[5] Section 2.8 discusses IPv4 accounting at the AFTR, but notes that
> > >"the AFTR does not have detailed customer identity information."  Does
> > >that create a theft of service possibility?  If so, that possibility
> > >should be mentioned as a security consideration.  Also, Section 2.8
> > >ought to be expanded with a sentence or two explaining why the AFTR
> > >does not have that identity information, and in particular to explain
> > >whether and why it is unreasonable in some or all cases to expect
> > >that customer identity information be provided to the AFTR as part
> > >of provisioning each customer's softwire.
> >
> > [YL] Good catch. Actually I believe AFTR "does" have both IPv4 and IPv6 to
> > identify the customer. I suggest we remove
> >
> > "but it will potentially introduce some additional complexity because
> >    the AFTR does not have detailed customer identity information."
> >
> > >
> > >Nits:
> > >
> > >Section 2.3 on MTU Considerations could usefully mention MTU discovery
> > >techniques, as possibilities for customer IPv4 traffic to adapt to a
> > >smaller IPv4 MTU.  If this is done, it would be useful to mention
> > >RFC 4821 in addition to the mention of RFC 1191 in RFC 6333.
> >
> > [YL] We would consider RFC 4821. However, the challenge is I don't have
> > information how many current OS support RFC 4821. Since DS-lite is a
> > transition technology, it would be unreasonable to ask the OS company to
> > implement RFC 4821 for DS-lite.
> >
> > >
> > >Section 2.4 should define "lawful intercept".  It would be helpful to
> > >cite a reference for this concept if something appropriate can be found.
> >
> > [YL] We will find whether there is any reference to this concept. If we
> > can't find any, we would add an explanation in the draft.
> >
> > >
> > >Section 2.5:
> > >- Are one or both types of logging recommended?
> >
> > [YL] We tempted to recommend source-specific log. However, some regulators
> > require to use both and the regulations vary country from country, this is
> > why we left it open and let the operators to decide.
> >
> > >- Last paragraph on p.4, "timestamped log" is not a good verb phrase.
> > >     "maintain a timestamped log of" would be a better replacement.
> >
> > [YL] Fixed
> >
> > >- Last paragraph in section, where is the batch file sent?
> >
> > [YL] We will add:
> >
> > "The files may be compressed before transferring to a repository server
> >       to better utilize bandwidth and storage."
> >
> >
> > >
> > >In Section 2.7, I'm having a hard time understanding which traffic is
> > >intended to be subject to the Outgoing Policies and the Incoming Policies.
> > >Expanding each of those two bullets to explain what traffic is subject
> > >to each class of policies would help.
> >
> > [YL] Does this help?
> >
> > Outgoing Policies apply to packets originating from B4 to IPv4 network.
> > Incoming Policies apply to packets originating from IPv4 network to B4.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Section 3.2.2.2 uses 192.0.0.2/32 as an example IP address for the
> > >B4.  That section should also cross-reference Section 5.7 on RFC 6333
> > >on IP address assignment to B4s, as other IP addresses may be used.
> >
> > [YL] Added the cite.
> >
> > >
> > >idnits 2.12.13 found a tiny nit - draft-ietf-pcp-base is now at
> > >version 28.
> >
> > [YL] Fixed.
> >
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >--David
> > >----------------------------------------------------
> > >David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer
> > >EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
> > >+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
> > >[email protected]        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
> > >----------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> 
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