Joel,

I think the LACP discussion could be added to 4.1.1.

I also think that there's a general theme that needs to be covered across all 
of 4.1.1 - 4.1.4: When there are multiple traffic egress points from a domain 
(4.1.1 - 4.1.4 cover four different types of domains), the SAVI checks on all 
the egresses should be coordinated and consistent in order to avoid surprises 
when the traffic switches to a different egress point.

Thanks,
--David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 AM
> To: Black, David
> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; 
> [email protected];
> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [savi] Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-savi-threat-scope-05
> 
> Looking at the draft more carefully (when I am more awake, sorry), I
> think what you are asking is that more text be put in section 4.1, maybe
> a subsection?  That additional text would talk about placement on a
> switch that is not directly attached to the client, but is not as far
> upstream as the first hop router?  That text would include mention of
> the effect of spanning tree variation and LACP path changes.
> 
> Sorry I was dense,
> Joel
> 
> On 5/15/2011 9:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> > Joel,
> >
> > If LACP is running active-passive across links to two different switches, 
> > there may be no physical
> network node common to the currently active and currently passive paths for 
> some traffic.  If SAVI
> is set up poorly, a switch to the currently passive link could remove 
> validation checks or black-
> hole traffic that was flowing on the previously active link. For example, 
> binding an IP address to a
> single port or ports on a single switch is insufficient in such an 
> environment (address validation
> binding needs to span switches).
> >
> > The material in 5.2.4 on Multi-LAN Hosts looks like a starting point - wrt 
> > SAVI, active-passive
> link aggregation across multiple switches can be a way to get into that sort 
> of trouble on a single
> LAN (!).  Beyond that, I think the notion that SAVI checks should be 
> consistent across alternate
> paths for the same traffic is applicable at other scopes, e.g., all egresses 
> from a multi-homed
> network to the ISP networks involved.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --David
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 11:28 AM
> >> To: Black, David
> >> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; 
> >> [email protected];
> >> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: [savi] Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-savi-threat-scope-05
> >>
> >> Thank you David.
> >> I think I understand the second part of your comment (about
> >> multi-instance hosts), and will have to look at the document more to see
> >> how to address that.
> >>
> >> I am not sure I understand what the question is regarding the LACP /
> >> link group issue.  Is this really different from the issues that arise
> >> whenever the SAVI functionality is not on the leaf switch?  Where in the
> >> document do you think it would help to discuss this?
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >> Joel
> >>
> >> On 5/13/2011 1:03 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> >>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on
> >>> Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at
> >>> <http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
> >>>
> >>> Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments
> >>> you may receive.
> >>>
> >>> Document: draft-ietf-savi-threat-scope-05
> >>> Reviewer: David L. Black
> >>> Review Date: 12 May 2011
> >>> IETF LC End Date: 18 May 2011
> >>>
> >>> Summary: This draft is on the right track, but has open issues, described 
> >>> in the review.
> >>>
> >>> This draft discusses the threats and deployment environment for IP source
> >>> address validation with particular attention to finer-grain validation 
> >>> that
> >>> could be used within a network to validate IP addresses closer to the 
> >>> sources
> >>> of network traffic than ingress to an ISP's network.
> >>>
> >>> Major issues:
> >>>
> >>> There is no discussion of link teaming or aggregation (e.g., via LACP); 
> >>> this
> >>> may affect source address validation functionality by requiring the same
> >>> validation checks on all aggregated ports.  An important case to discuss
> >>> is where the aggregated host links are connected to ports on different 
> >>> switches
> >>> (e.g., in an active/passive configuration).
> >>>
> >>> The discussion of multi-instance hosts in section 5.2.3 is incomplete
> >>> in several important aspects:
> >>>
> >>> (1) Some of the software switch implementations are single instance 
> >>> switches
> >>> whose implementation is distributed across multiple physical servers.  
> >>> This
> >>> results in concerns similar to the link aggregation discussion above.
> >>>
> >>> (2) Live migration of virtual machines among physical servers causes
> >>> relocation of MAC addresses across switch ports.  A so-called "gratuitous 
> >>> ARP"
> >>> is often used to inform the network of the MAC address move; port-based
> >>> source address validation information needs to move in response to such 
> >>> ARPs.
> >>>
> >>> (3) MAC address relocation is also used as a failure recovery technique; 
> >>> the
> >>> surviving hardware element (e.g., host in a cluster) takes over the MAC
> >>> addresses of the failed hardware; like the previous case, a "gratuitous 
> >>> ARP"
> >>> is a common means of informing the network that the MAC address has moved,
> >>> and source address validation information needs to move in response to it.
> >>>
> >>> Minor issues:
> >>>
> >>> There doesn't seem to be much discussion of dynamic network 
> >>> reconfiguration,
> >>> which may change traffic egress points.  VRRP may be a useful example to
> >>> discuss beyond the typical routing protocol updates to forwarding tables.
> >>>
> >>> Nits/editorial comments:
> >>>
> >>> idnits 2.12.11 ran clean.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> --David
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------
> >>> David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer
> >>> EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
> >>> +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
> >>> [email protected]        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> savi mailing list
> >>> [email protected]
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/savi
> >>>
> >
> >

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