This is related to what you say. Many people work because it brings them self esteem.
Frank --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 11:55 AM Stephen Guerin <[email protected]> wrote: > Joaquin, your claim that “communism fails because no one owns anything, so > no one works” might oversimplify both human motivation and economic > organization. It assumes private property is the only incentive, ignoring > that people also work for meaning, contribution, and shared purpose — as > seen in teaching, caregiving, or open-source work. Attention and reputation > are important motivators — being forms of wealth beyond money and physical > assets > > While state-run economies like the USSR suffered inefficiencies, these > often stemmed from centralized bureaucracy, not the absence of ownership. > Crucially, collective ownership — especially in distributed groups — does > not mean no ownership. It means shared stewardship, clear norms, and mutual > accountability. Co-ops and digital commons thrive on such principles, > sustaining motivation without relying on private profit. > > More importantly, collective ownership can also yield collective profit — > and through self-governing rules, communities determine how that profit, > along with authority and responsibilities, are fairly distributed. These > rules are tailored to context: effort, contribution, equity, or consensus. > This kind of bottom-up governance creates sustainable motivation and avoids > both centralized control and extractive inequality. > > Elinor Ostrom documented how communities across the world govern > common-pool resources — fisheries, forests, irrigation — through local > rules and cooperation, not markets or state command. One vivid example is > the Acequia system, with origins in Spain and the Middle East, and still > practiced in the American Southwest. > > Acequias are community-managed irrigation networks where water is > collectively governed, not privately traded. Responsibilities are shared, > maintained through traditions like the annual cleaning and roles like the > mayordomo. They represent a third way — neither capitalist nor statist — > built on collective ownership, self-regulation, and distributed governance. > > This model inspires our digital Acequia: a decentralized system for > stewarding shared data, computation, and sensing infrastructure. Built on > open protocols (WebDAV, WebRTC, local-first tools), it supports collective > perception and collective action, enabling collective intelligence to > emerge from distributed participation. > > Just as physical Acequias channel water through mutual care, the digital > Acequia channels insight, shared value, and coordinated action — forming a > resilient, co-governed commons for the digital era. > > - Stephen and Dan > > ____________________________________________ > CEO Founder, Simtable.com > [email protected] > > Harvard Visualization Research and Teaching Lab > [email protected] > > mobile: (505)577-5828 > > On Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 1:09 AM Jochen Fromm <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I was born in West Germany when the country was deeply divided in East >> and West. British, French and American forces had occupied the Western >> part, Russian/Soviet forces the Eastern part. My home town was part of the >> British zone. I remember British barracks, British forces on the streets, >> and British radio stations (British Forces Broadcasting Service, BFBS). At >> that time Putin was a small, insignificant KGB officer in Dresden in the >> Eastern part - the city where Victor Klemperer lived and suffered earlier. >> >> Americans were seen in the Western part as heroes. They were the ones who >> had defended England and freed France from the Nazis, rescued West-Berlin >> by the Berlin Airlift, and stopped the communists. In the cinemas Americans >> were the heroes too: first in American Western movies, like "The Tin Star" >> (Henry Fonda), "High Noon" (Gary Cooper), etc., later in action movies like >> Tom Cruise's Top Gun or Harrison Ford's Indiana Jones. >> >> After the Soviet Union collapsed everybody thought America and liberal >> democracy had won. Francis Fukuyama wrote "The End of History". As we see >> now maybe it is not that simple. Communism has drawbacks - mainly that >> nobody has an incentive to work because no one owns anything - but >> capitalism has a dark side too: it unleashes evil corporations and tends to >> destroy nature. >> >> There is evil on multiple scales and in multiple dimensions. Corporations >> and their CEOs can be evil, politicians and presidents too, churches can be >> evil (think of "Roman Inquisition") and political parties in totalitarian >> systems can be supremely evil. Even if we look at nature where animals eat >> each other alive we must wonder if Vasily Grossman was right in his book >> "Life and Fate", where he asks whether life itself is evil. >> >> Yes, we live in interesting times. We have more knowledge at our >> fingertips than all generations before us, and yet it does not seem to make >> us wiser or act better. >> >> -J. >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: steve smith <[email protected]> >> Date: 6/28/25 11:51 PM (GMT+01:00) >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [FRIAM] Navalny - Berlin Diary - Klemperer - Daily News >> >> TD;DR (Too Downer Don't Read) >> >> I am reading Shirer's Berlin Diary >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Diary> as Mary reads Navalny's >> autobiography <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_(book)> (aloud to >> me) while our daily news rolls by this season (year? decade?) is pretty >> disturbing, but also comforting in a disturbing way. We read (Mary out >> loud to me) Victor Klemperer's Journals >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Klemperer> (nod to Jochen's recent >> reference) a few years ago. >> >> <PriviedWhiteMaleSplaining> >> >> The *dis*comfiting part is really obvious I would say... watching, >> through first person accounts of how an otherwise functioning, and in some >> cases vibrant culture can slip into a self-destructive spiral, usually with >> a strong opening game of abusing some *other* group of scapegoats >> (non-White, non-Christian, non-MAGA) on the way down. Maybe invading your >> neighbors (Canada, Greenland, Panama?) >> >> Navalny's reports are most salient to some of the conversations here, >> notably glen's references to holding stocks as a strategy to keep tabs on >> our *evil corporate overlords* and even (potentally) attend stockholder >> meetings or demand extra documentation, etc. It appears Navalny made this >> into a fine art in his early days of rising to attention and influence. >> *I* reduced all of my "blood stocks" to 1 share about the time of the >> election, some significantly before. My dirtiest financial secret was >> riding Elno's coat-tails some ways up, but did begin to distance myself >> well before he went full-MAGA before the election. >> >> And best I can tell, as Chomsky indicated about "socially responsible >> investing", they are *all* blood stocks. Some more than others. >> Palantir, Anduril, United Health, Purdue anyone? >> >> In Berlin Diary, I am just at the point where Paris has been occupied and >> the extreme contrasts THAT yielded. The French government (as many may >> know) withdrew and declared Paris an "Open City" meaning they would not >> attempt to defend it as they had other cities and villages in the path of >> the Nazi Wermacht. I was raised (anecdotes and history books) to believe >> that this represented some kind of moral failure of the entire French >> People (live to fight another day!). >> >> Shirer, an American, having lived/worked in Paris was very attached, and >> was "sent" into Paris (from Berlin) because all other foreign media had >> *fled* in the face of possible invasion (in spite of the Open City) >> status. His reports of the police and fire remaining (mostly) intact >> (albeit disarmed) directing traffic (mostly Wermacht vehicles) while >> hundreds of thousands of evacuees were suffering (unto dying) on the roads >> leading away was stunning. But the destruction of Paris itself (and the >> millions who did not flee) would not have served anything either? >> >> I also just spent 90 mins on a video chat with my Ukrainian colleagues >> (from Kiev) who have been unavailable since the invasion began. We avoided >> direct discussion of their "troubles" in lieu of strictly technical >> discussions of their developments. They did "let slip" that the bulk of >> their progress halted 4 years ago and they were just now trying to marshall >> those results into something marketable (e.g. triangular LED panels >> designed for constructing dome-sections at a scale from 9m to 90m >> (diameter)... knowing that they are doing this under the constant threat >> of kinetic attacks from Russia and some of their (previous) descriptions of >> how hard they fought as young professionals (in their 30s) against the >> systemic corruption of (post) Soviet Ukraine gives me a little more >> perspective. >> >> As for the daily news: I recommend the apocryphal Twain quote: “I never >> read the newspapers until at least two weeks after they're published — that >> way I can be sure the lies have been corrected.” and Tom Hanks' movie >> News of the World >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_of_the_World_%28film%29> for some >> perspective? >> >> Bottom line is "how good we have it" juxtaposed starkly with "this is how >> it all slides into oblivion", juxtaposed with "this too shall pass". >> Jochen (born in Cold-War E. Germany?) and Pieter (came of age through >> Apartheid), et al can probably speak more personally to these contrasts? >> >> </PriviedWhiteMaleSplaining> >> >> Interesting times? >> >> >> .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / >> ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / > ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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