My guess is profundity is yet another (positive affect) emotion. And it might 
be classified as a subtype of apophenia. Depth, in this sense, isn't so much 
the serialized extent Wolfram (or Roger, I didn't watch it) seems to be 
implying. It seems more like minimal path length for walking a graph. You start 
at one node and then, it takes so long to get to some other 
attention-interesting node, that you're surprised when you run across/near a 
previous node during your walk. Profundity may be a bit like a big hub or a 
principle component in such a graph. Grok that component and other things 
*feel* like they snap into focus. And that registration is almost always 
preemptive, preventing you from doffing that perspective.

So, profundity, like most emotions, including the apparent simplicity of DL nets 
or language, is something to be avoided ... or at least well-handled. Scammers and 
bullsh¡tters *love* positive affect because it's so useful for manipulating their 
audience. It's relatively easy to spot manipulaters when they try to hook you on 
outrage or anger. But it's way more difficult to spot the scammer who manipulates 
you with positive affect like empathy or camaraderie. Beware the gushing 
compliments. You've been warned. >8^D

On 2/24/23 08:25, Marcus Daniels wrote:
Is there a distinction?   Is defeating cryptography profound or winning at Go?  
Molecular dynamics?   Turing Test?   Is anything profound?

On Feb 24, 2023, at 7:01 AM, Roger Critchlow <r...@elf.org> wrote:


Watched Wolfram's entry in the um6p complexity slam last night.  At the end of his talk 
he argues that the Chat GPT epiphany is evidence that language has shallow computational 
complexity.  We're surprised because we imagined it was deep and irreducible, but we just 
kept spreading the data and it finally all snapped into focus.  And the "deep 
learning" labelling confuses the issue.  Yes, they're architecturally deep neural 
nets, but it's really a very simple computation being done over and over again.  It's not 
deep as in profound, it's deep because we needed somewhere to stack all the layers.

-- rec --

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 7:22 AM Eric Charles <eric.phillip.char...@gmail.com 
<mailto:eric.phillip.char...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    I am particularly impressed that at the end there it doubled down on having 
the _/wrong /_title for Nick's publication.

    <image.png>



    On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 4:20 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com 
<mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote:

        Stunning!  How do you know if ChatCBT is lying; it’s steely lips are 
moving. ____

        Nick ____

        __ __

        *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com 
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Jochen Fromm
        *Sent:* Tuesday, February 21, 2023 1:23 PM
        *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com 
<mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
        *Subject:* [FRIAM] ChatGPT knows FRIAM____

        __ __

        Me: Do you know the FRIAM group in Santa Fe?____



        ____

        ChatGPT: Yes, I'm aware of the FRIAM group in Santa Fe. FRIAM (Focusing 
Research on Infinite Automated Models) is a research group located at the Santa 
Fe Institute, a renowned research center dedicated to the study of complex 
systems. FRIAM is a group of interdisciplinary researchers who explore the use 
of mathematical models and computational methods to understand complex systems 
and phenomena, with a focus on infinite-dimensional systems. The group's 
research interests include dynamical systems, machine learning, optimization, 
and more. FRIAM's work has contributed to a deeper understanding of various 
systems, such as financial markets, climate models, and biological systems, 
among others.____

        __ __

        Me: No, I mean the Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group. It 
is organization of complexity researchers and software developers in Santa Fe, 
New Mexico, interested in applied complexity____

        __ __

        ChatGPT: I apologize for the confusion. Yes, I'm also aware of the 
Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group in Santa Fe. It is a group of 
complexity researchers and software developers who meet on Friday mornings to 
discuss and explore topics related to applied complexity. The group is open to 
anyone who is interested in the subject and is often attended by researchers, 
academics, entrepreneurs, and professionals from a variety of fields. The 
discussions at the group cover a wide range of topics, including complex 
systems, data science, artificial intelligence, and more. The group provides a 
forum for members to share their ideas and learn from each other in an informal 
setting over a cup of coffee. The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee 
Group is one of many examples of the vibrant intellectual community in Santa Fe 
dedicated to the study of complex systems.____

        __ __

        Me: Can you name some active members? ____

        __ __

        ChatGPT: I'm sorry, but as an artificial intelligence language model, I 
don't have access to real-time information on the current membership of the 
Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group. The group is a community of 
complexity researchers and software developers in Santa Fe who meet on a 
regular basis to discuss and explore topics related to applied complexity. The 
membership of the group is fluid, with new members joining and others moving on 
as their interests and circumstances change. If you are interested in learning 
more about the group, you might be able to find more information on their 
website or through social media channels. Alternatively, you could try reaching 
out to the Santa Fe Institute, which has connections with many researchers and 
organizations in the Santa Fe area.____

        __ __

        Me: Nicholas Thompson, Eric Charles, Glen Ropella and Frank Wimberly 
are part of this group. What do you know about them?____

        __ __

        ChatGPT: Nicholas Thompson is the Editor-in-Chief of Wired Magazine, which covers 
a wide range of topics related to technology, science, and culture. Prior to his current 
position at Wired, he was a senior editor at the magazine and worked as a reporter for 
The New Yorker and Legal Times. Thompson is also the author of "The Hawk and the 
Dove: Paul Nitze, George Kennan, and the History of the Cold War," a book that 
explores the history of the Cold War through the lives of two of its most prominent 
strategists.____

        __ __

        Eric Charles is the Vice President of Engineering at Descartes Labs, a 
geospatial data analytics company that leverages machine learning and 
artificial intelligence to analyze satellite imagery and other types of data. 
Charles has a background in computer science and has worked in various 
engineering and leadership roles at several technology companies, including 
Intel, Sun Microsystems, and Google.____

        __ __

        Glen Ropella is a computer scientist and engineer who has worked on a 
variety of projects related to computational modeling, artificial intelligence, 
and machine learning. He is currently a Senior Scientist at Los Alamos National 
Laboratory, where he is involved in research on complex systems and their 
applications to national security and other areas.____

        __ __

        Frank Wimberly is a software engineer and entrepreneur who has worked 
in various roles in the technology industry, including as a software engineer 
at Yahoo and as the founder of a startup focused on data analytics. He is 
currently the CTO of Descartes Labs, where he leads the company's efforts to 
develop and apply advanced machine learning and artificial intelligence 
techniques to geospatial data.____

        __ __

        It's worth noting that while these individuals have been associated 
with the Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group at some point, their 
involvement with the group may have changed over time, as the group's 
membership is fluid and changes over time.____

        __ __

        Me: The Nicholas Thompson I mean was Professor of Psychology and Biology at Clark 
University. Do you know his work, for example his paper "Intentionality is the Mark 
of the Vital" ?____

        __ __

        ChatGPT: I apologize for the confusion. I was referring to a different 
person with the same name, Nicholas Thompson, who is the Editor-in-Chief of 
Wired Magazine.____

        __ __

        Regarding the Nicholas Thompson who is a Professor of Psychology and Biology at Clark 
University, I am familiar with his work. Thompson is a prominent researcher in the fields of 
cognitive neuroscience and philosophy of mind. His paper "Intentionality is the Mark of the 
Mental" (not "Intentionality is the Mark of the Vital," as I previously stated) is a 
classic paper in the philosophy of mind, in which he argues that intentionality, or the capacity of 
mental states to represent or be about things, is a key characteristic of the mental.____

        __ __

        Thompson has made important contributions to the study of neural processes 
involved in perception, attention, and consciousness. He has also written on the 
relationship between neuroscience and philosophy, arguing for a "naturalized" 
approach to philosophy of mind that takes into account empirical findings from 
neuroscience and related fields. Thompson's work is highly regarded in both the 
philosophical and scientific communities, and he has published extensively in both 
areas.____

--
ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ

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