That meat-like intelligence could live forever with the right maintenance protocol.
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 4:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Selective cultural processes generate adaptive heuristics Ha! 8^D But neither the ANN clone, nor the *stereotyped* heuristics generated by an autonomous car capture the high-dimensional opportunity I believe meat organisms experience. Yes, the subsequent evolution of the ANNs and the stereotyped out-group are more concrete than most synthetic minds. But my claim, were I to actually hold it and try to state it more clearly, is that meat, living in meat space, is more open than those 2 examples. It's the openness that provides the meat with the opportunity. The ANNs and autonomous car are more fixed, more closed. However, I do believe machine intelligence *will* reach meat intelligence. But it'll have to look a lot more like meat intelligence to do so. It's already looking a lot more like meat intelligence than it was even 10 years ago. And if we stay at this supralinear rate (or higher), it'll happen sooner than I, this meat bag, thinks. On 4/12/22 15:58, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Now it is entirely possible to take a massive pre-trained neural net like > GPT3 and run it in two places at once or have different instances use a > baseline and take divergent paths from different training. > None of that is possible for humans, at least yet. Some autonomous cars > even know enough to be afraid of the police! (Regarding concreteness.) > https://electrek.co/2022/04/10/gm-cruise-autonomous-taxi-pulled-over-by-police-in-san-francisco-without-humans-bolts-off-u-cruise-responds/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 3:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Selective cultural processes generate adaptive heuristics > > Exactly. Both of these (low turnover wisdom propagation & "flat" infoscape) > fail in my conception because they lack the concrete (definit) particulars. > Even if we have one 400 year old vampire telling funny stories to a 30 year > vampire about a now-exploded vampire from 700 years ago, the sheer *number* > of anecdotes required to capture a 400 year lifespan *forces* some > abstraction ... some leaving out of important detail. > > And even if the concrete details of why, say, Galileo was such an OCD > journaling nerd can be found in biographies or whatnot, actually reading and > learning about all the persnickety nonsense that was *crucial* to the arrival > at, emergence of, any given inflection point, ... even if that concrete > detail is logged/documented out there somewhere, nobody can learn it all. > Each learner is forced to take an abstracted slice through it. > > What the commitment to meat space interactions is, is a way to ensure that > the concreteness remains ... at least within *some* small "open ball", you're > getting a high-dimensional opportunity. I think of it in terms of the space > vs time tradeoff and (yes, broken record) the parallelism theorem. Sure, a > sequential system can simulate a parallel one perfectly, but only if you give > it the time to do so ... and the amount of time it takes to do it is related > to the amount of space the parallel system uses. Another way to think of it > is the project management triangle: cheap, fast, or good. But those are > low-dimensional. The space being balanced by organisms in the world is > high-dimensional. > > On 4/12/22 14:19, Steve Smith wrote: >> Generations past (and under-mobile near-subsistence cultures today) have >> more intergenerational households and neighborhoods providing the >> heterarchical/holarchical connection/communication you suggest. Or so my >> "just so" story relates. >> >> The expansive breadth offered by global (near-instantaneous, global) >> communication/publication/relationship connections possibly makes up for >> that in the large, a major refactoring of problems and solutions. >> >> I personally suffer from the lack of cross-cultural, cross-class experience >> of frequenting a neighborhood "watering hole" (pub/tavern/saloon) in the way >> Glen seems to enjoy (cultivate). My oldest regular drinking-philosophy buddy >> would be over 110 today (he died over 20 years ago from alcohol-related >> illness) and until about 5 years ago I had a small cohort of 30ish imbibing >> interlocutors. I blame COVID, but the reasons are probably larger and more >> nefarious. > > -- Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . 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