How do you compress the air? Any method I can think of uses energy. From what source?
Frank --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Feb 7, 2022, 10:57 AM Michael Orshan <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi. I'm a reader more than a contributor, but the Hydrogen discussion is > close to my day to day. > > Many of us in renewables think Hydrogen might mostly be kick the can as > Steve mentioned. It is something that might be economically feasible in > the 2030s and so the length of time oil companies sell oil increases. > Having said that, there are a number of very pricey Hydrogen projects > getting funded. That might be showing how profitable the O&G industry is. > > I'm working with a company we call Breeze <http://www.breezesqueeze.com>. > It uses compressed air in pipelines to move turbines at power plants. > Without fossil fuels or using water this is getting a lot of attention. > There are many advantages such as cold air where compressed air is released > that can be used by data centers. 25% of all GHGs come from generating > electricity. 45% of all water used in the US is used to create > electricity. > > We see this as a better option than Hydrogen. We do think Hydrogen fuel > cells are a solution for mobile applications. > > Mike Orshan > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 10:27 AM Steve Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On 2/6/22 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> >> >> https://thebulletin.org/2022/01/whether-green-blue-or-turquoise-hydrogen-needs-to-be-clean-and-cheap/ >> >> *Low-cost fossil fuel resources are finite. Someday it will simply >> not be possible to burn oil, natural gas, and coal for the affordable heat, >> electricity, and motive power humans need to power their prosperous >> societies. * >> >> Must we always begin with the assumption that growth in terms of >> geographical/geometric, material and energy consumption/appropriation are >> requisite to continuing/growing a "prosperous society"? Tangentially (or >> not), if "green" hydrogen implies a 2:1 ratio of CO2 production to H2 but >> often begins with fossil fuels, it is obviously yet another "kick the can >> down the road" solution. Harvesting solar and direct-solar/lunar-derived >> energy (including wind, tidal) and channeling it through our living >> (including technological infrastructure and agri-industry) systems to yield >> high-entropy "waste heat" seems to be orders of magnitude more sustainable >> (if still questionable on some very long time-scale limited by a >> Dyson-Sphere-like-limit). If the H2 is created by cracking H20 (and >> capturing both to be recombined later to release energy) using solar (and >> other renewables) energy it is a *closed cycle*. One would presume the >> total amount of H2 we would have stored/ >> >> From ecology there comes the observed phenomena of "island syndrome" >> which can include island dwarfism and poikilothermy which are both driven >> by reducing the demand on finite resources without giving up function or >> complexity. >> >> From Alexander Payne comes the absurdist SciFi flick Downsizing >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downsizing_(film)#Plot> which postulates >> by shrinking humans by ???-fold (5 inches tall ~= 12:1 in 1 dimension, >> 144:1 in cross section and 1728:1 in volume/mass... ) the movie implies no >> change in metabolic rates which would nominally speed up with "shrinkage", >> yielding (also) shorter lifespans. Oh well.. Fiction. But the point >> would seem well taken... Gaia would get a 2000:1 reprieve from our >> *current* energy/mass burden on her systems. >> >> I'm not promoting shrinking people as-such, just noting that our 0th >> order instinct is growth, and supralinear if at all possible, up to and >> likely achieving Kurzweillian asymptotic resource consumption. >> >> On that note, I believe that the myriad technological singularity >> concepts all point toward increased complexity and downscaling to extend >> the use of material and energy, driving up the effective collective >> metabolism of "the system" and paradoxically *increasing* the rate at which >> we approach any of the jillion ecophagic gray-goo >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_goo>-like scenarios neo-luddites >> like me might contrive. >> >> I assume (but have not yet poked around for) that Alifers have already >> studied the multi-scale *structure* of negative entropy profiles in complex >> systems-of-systems. I think Glen has his ear closer to that rail than >> some here? EricS? ??? I'm still fascinated in the topic but gave up my >> little-toenail-purchase in the community in the early 2000s - Symbiotic >> Intelligence ALifeVI >> <https://cseweb.ucsd.edu//~rik/alife6/papers/SY51.html>. This reads so >> naive yet (mildly) prophetic now... >> >> All is lost! Flee the solar system! >> >> >> >> On Feb 6, 2022, at 7:20 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >> >> Grey hydrogen? >> >> >> https://retakeourdemocracy.org/2022/02/06/another-stunning-hydrogen-development/ >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe <http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe> >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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