Lol.... ok.... but also there are plenty of Casino's available with no smoking.... Welcome to The Future.
<[email protected]> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:32 PM Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > Remind me never to go to a casino. The last time I was in one was to meet > my lawyer whose office was in ABQ for lunch so we could split the driving > time. I almost choked from the cigarette smoke. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021, 6:09 PM Prof David West <[email protected]> wrote: > >> SteveS, >> >> Your intuitions are spot on, based on my experience. Although casinos >> can't ban cell phones, you may not use one at the table - must step away >> and not have a hand in play. The do detect and ban all kinds of electronic >> transmissions — radio to infrared and if you have such a transmitter on >> your person you are quickly escorted out and banned. Receivers are harder >> to detect except when actively 'receiving' but same result if discovered. >> >> Blackjack has a published 'standard game' written up years ago — casinos >> will actually give you a copy — that maximizes the players odds of winning, >> at least long term. However there are lots of tricks employed to remove >> even that vestige of a chance, like mandatory side bets, and paying even >> odds instead of 3/2 for a blackjack if your bet is below some minimum. >> >> Casinos are also masters of facial recognition — probably better tech >> than anything any government (including China) or Facebook can command. >> Once banned, even hookers, you will never get more than a few feet into a >> big casino before security descends — even if disguised. >> >> Cash game poker, the house takes a standard rake — 10% up to a limit — of >> the pot as table rent and dealers receive tips plus a minimum wage hourly >> rate. Seniority determines which dealers get to service the high limit >> (hence high tips) tables. >> >> Tournaments: house takes a portion of the entry fee and rest goes into >> pot. Dealers get hourly rate, plus tips are collected from winners and >> distributed evenly. >> >> Poker is luck plus very astute inter-personal observation. One of my >> favorite players, Daniel Negreanu, has a Master Class that provides all >> kinds of technical skill, but he does not play that way, instead seat of >> the pants observations and table talk determine his strategy. Not that he >> is unaware of or lacks the technical chops, they are just not the ultimate >> arbitrator of play — mostly because all the others in tournaments at his >> level have the same degree of technical skill. >> >> I did some consulting to casinos a few years back when Highlands was >> trying to start a casino / hospitality program. I have never seen such >> sophisticated and secure systems before or since. >> >> James Swain has a series of mystery books — first in series is *Grift >> Sense* — with plots that center on one major attempt to defraud a casino >> and many little side plots that reveal all the different attempts to >> "cheat" casinos. Fun reads. >> >> A strategy for short term winning at roulette: bet 10 each on two of the >> 1/3 sections of the table (rows or columns) plus one of the 1:1 sections >> (even/odd, red/black, top half-bottom have of the board), plus 1 dollar on >> the 0-00 line (half odds but both covered). However, this will not work if >> you play more than a 10-15 minutes because it only takes 4.5 times when >> none of your bets hit before you are wiped out. This apparently works >> because the wheel DOES have a bias, mostly from the way the dealer sends >> the ball around the wheel. Watch the history board for patterns that reveal >> the ever so slight but real bias. >> >> davew >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Steve Smith wrote: >> >> DaveW- >> >> Congratulations (or condolences) on your move to Vegas. Another >> reference gave me the sense you might be at least *wintering* there. >> >> I probably would not be surprised (though shocked) by what Casinos can >> ban. I didn't mean to suggest that they didn't have the self-granted >> authority to ban cell phones, etc. but rather doing so would severely >> impact their popularity among the hordes of marks who happily come to give >> up their spare (or not so) cash to feed the bright lights and other >> egregious displays of wealth. >> >> The Thomas Bass rendition of Farmer et alia foray into exploiting >> manufacturing/wear biases in roulette wheels Eudamonic Pie >> <https://www.thomasbass.com/the_eudaemonic_pie_1360.htm> suggests that >> today the same effort would be "trivial" with nothing more perhaps than a >> cell phone camera/computer observing from a shirt pocket. Of course, >> those biases have long since been ameliorated one way or another I am >> sure. >> >> You describe poker tables as the one place the house has no stake in the >> game. I have to admit that i don't know who pays the rent/real-estate on >> the table? Is there a flat-rate rake-off from every pot? Does the dealer >> live on tips? >> >> When the Native Casinos opened here, my elderDotter was turning 18 and >> she had a friend who thought she wanted to grow up to be a blackjack dealer >> so they frequented the casino. I don't know that my daughter lost/spent >> much money on it, but she never had any illusions that she could "beat the >> house". I think their game was blackjack which I understand has the >> built-in tiny but positive bias to the house (the house wins all ties by >> convention?). I told both daughters as they approached college that I had >> saved enough for them to be able to go through a BS/BA degree with only >> part-time/summer work contribution (or healthy scholarship) on their >> part. I suggested that I cash it out and take it to the casino and drop >> it all on red or black (Roulette) with the understanding that their odds >> ware just a smidge short of doubling their money vs losing it all (the one >> green slot represents the house advantage?). The conceit was that if they >> *won* they would then have enough cash to "coast" through college as *many* >> of their peers seemed to be supported or else if they *lost* they could >> forego any implied obligation of going to college. They both honestly >> mulled it for at least 10 seconds before they rolled their eyes and said >> "no way!". >> >> I'm curious how you feel about my claim that the inter-personal dynamic >> at the poker table is in some sense more important than the technical >> skill? My point in your case would be that you would be *at* a table where >> the technical skill level was roughly even, right? Tournament play tends >> to support that, right? As you advance, the skill level of your >> table-peers increases until you either step up YOUR game or fail out of the >> game? >> >> I think of you as having a strong mix of technical approach, intuition, >> and likely to engage in the social-emotional game as well (e.g. bluffing). >> >> - Steve >> On 11/8/21 9:42 AM, Prof David West wrote: >> >> You would be surprised at what casinos can ban. Maybe even more surprised >> at the, not necessarily AI, software tools they use to analyze video feeds >> and pounce on any kind of statistically improbabilities. Most casinos in >> Vegas have tools, like mandatory side bets with very low odds, that erase >> the near equal odds of blackjack. >> >> The only 'safe' gambling is poker where the house has no direct interest >> in the outcome. >> >> As DES stated, winning is a matter of patience and losing antes only, >> until you get good hand and then skill of playing that hand for maximum >> return — playing less worse than the others at the table. >> >> I am living in Vegas now and playing small tournaments fairly regularly. >> >> davew >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Steve Smith wrote: >> >> >> On 11/7/21 12:02 PM, David Eric Smith wrote: >> >> There must be some kind of “Back to the future” movie that can be made >> out of this. Doyne Farmer in Vegas all over again, but with current-era AI >> in place of toe-operated computers. >> >> Yah! Surely Casinos can't begin to restrict computers(phones)/earbuds, >> etc. on the gaming floor. >> >> Strange coincidence that my sister went to Kindergarten with Vance >> Packard (Norm's brother) in Silver City long before they all became eagle >> scouts and then the Chaos Cabal. We moved away the next year and I doubt I >> ever met any of them back then. I came to LANL just before (I think) >> Doyne came... I seem to remember that Norm was there for a summer... and >> soon came the (in)famous CA conference... As I remember it the game of >> interest (aside from Life, what with Conway in attendance) was GO with a >> lot of speculation about the implications of local vs global >> "intelligence"... I was intrigued by HashLife and it's implications for >> finding structure at many scales... I still hope for someone with more >> follow-through than I have to implement a more redundant but "thorough" >> space-time decomposition (an N-1xN-1 kernel over the 4 positions at each >> "zoom" level). >> >> Regarding poker.. I played some low-stakes in college and saw there were >> two things to take in: the main technical skill was to simply play less >> poorly than the other players at the table and that was entirely >> overshadowed by the social-engineering games of bluffing, etc. The very >> simple game-theoretic aspect of not depleting your own stake before you >> catch a "lucky streak" going your way was also a good understanding. I >> played with my "boss" and a number of peers at the time and realized that >> it was more about jockeying for position at work and drinking beer than it >> was about winning/losing. I think the most I ever lost/won was on the >> order of $20-$40 which in those days was roughly 1-2 shifts wages... a LOT >> if I joined them weekly... too rich for my blood! I still feel that >> *technically* playing well really means just playing less badly. >> Blackjack being even more obviously so? >> >> >> Yikes. >> >> >> >> On Nov 7, 2021, at 1:56 PM, Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> My inclination would be to invest in standoff biometrics (e.g. Eulerian >> Video Amplification) and then find the best poker playing code. It ought >> to be possible to automate and perhaps get rich in the process. >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 7:42 AM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >> [email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] lurking >> >> I DID read all the thread so far... but I'm curious how we got to one of >> the starting points: "as cringy as it may be for some dork to be proud of >> their Poker prowess" >> >> I am somewhat satisfied with my Poker mediocrity, certainly not proud of >> it... but if I met someone who was ACTUALLY startlingly better than I am, >> and they were proud of that, I wouldn't find it cringy. (Ditto in my other >> hobbies, like Aikido.) >> >> I guess if I met someone who had a slight edge in their drunk-buddy home >> games, and they were super proud of THAT, then i would find it cringy. >> (Ditto someone who's the best Aikido student in their small dojo, but who's >> obviously not more than that.) >> >> When I see academic work on game theory, it's usually of lower quality >> than what the good poker players are doing these days. Mastering the game >> is crazy hard, and being able to sit down and implement a coherent and >> winning strategy for 40-80 hours a week is not easy. So... why would that >> be cringe? >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 1:42 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Ok, part of the story is knowing what is really needed for >> reproducibility as a function of context. >> With that, then there's the matter of how much control is afforded. Is >> it programmable in predictable ways? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >> Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 8:20 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] lurking >> >> Yeah, I agree. But context is Queen. When the virus is created in the >> lab, it's done with real stuff distilled from the soupy world. Given enough >> of a difference in context, the robot may not be able to re-constitute the >> life because the soupy world surrounding the robot doesn't have the real >> stuff required. Such drastic context changes could be a result of >> translation through space or time. E.g. trying to construct, on Mars, an >> organism read/serialized on earth. Or e.g. trying to construct an organism >> read millennia ago, millennia in the future. It's naive to talk about >> "science" as if any given read-out formula thereby expressed is *complete*. >> Science is abstraction to a large extent ... maybe not as abstracting as >> math, of course. And science must remain "open" precisely because any >> formula it expresses is suspect, perhaps incomplete. >> >> My favorite example is the magic brewing stick: >> https://medievalmeadandbeer.wordpress.com/2019/05/04/scandinavian-yeast-logs-yeast-rings/ >> It *was* scientific to lay out the magic stick as a critical element of >> the brewing process, only to discover later that the stick isn't the >> important part. >> >> On 11/2/21 2:39 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> > Even if that were so, viruses have been pulled from history or tweaked >> and created in the lab. So we have a design specification, and the means >> to make it. One could imagine a robot fabricating the close-to-the-metal >> machine too. There is a story one can write down how it is done. If >> there is no story, it is not science we are talking about, it is something >> else. >> >> >> -- >> "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie." >> ☤>$ uǝlƃ >> >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,zW4gfnCEw-aapRghh7ny5t03MK3Rq3qBzZPN7MbtdXMnfOx5f1a4BOQ_kZjD5TYhhqAHjIi_GHC0cpNID7QmaQdIJEXPdJvp7e2YSj9T-Q,,&typo=1> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,42WSfvOtpfV6Y4enUg6wuYty46Wym2X7PyXyWfqyenKLBcLVwb23M3brrQe1Ygpnu_evLvZtxEK7bFkcshitkPmAQPpH4xkXwt8LCX6FnP03&typo=1> >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,iXEKOh_9svoFHHsCWA0TbwlILOY3IsE9XdwRauUf8WPQ2GKKbDvhQxuC-IF8qq3KWrXqLIrNxnxVLUtsqex7IJejGUSNsMIb8RUoRuriAA,,&typo=1> >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> .-- .- -. - 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