I live about thirty-miles from **Best Friends** — the largest or one of the largest no-kill animal sanctuaries in the US. They also are the center of a national network of shelters and and rescue operations.
One of the programs they have been promoting, throughout their network, the past several years is a feral cat capture-neuter-return-to-origin effort. They also promote the adoption of "working cats" — neutered feral or near feral cats for barns or rural properties as a means of rodent control. davew On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Having pets I adore and also seeing the reality of feral cats, it is hard not > to see humans through a similar lens. > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Gary Schiltz > *Sent:* Thursday, August 26, 2021 10:01 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Kill it! > > > Culling is easy, and they are delicious! Kung Pao Meow! > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 10:23 AM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: >> I have seen what happens when ferals proliferate. Out in the country it is >> common to have a few non-domesticated cats around, but they can proliferate >> amongst households. Look out the window, there is some hunt that is on. >> Culling is easy though. >> >> > On Aug 26, 2021, at 7:08 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > So, a wildlife ecologist friend of mine (who meatspace introduced me to >> > Looney (WSDA employee who discovered murder hornets here (who also hangs >> > at the local pub) [‡])) argues that domestic cats, as an invasive species, >> > are more horrifying than murder hornets, or english ivy, or the new >> > zealand mudsnail, etc. He focuses on how they're merely killing machines, >> > with which I agree. And goes with the usual "keep them inside" rhetoric. >> > >> > But I think I landed on an argument that he couldn't respond to. The >> > typical evolutionary argument against domestic cats is that we neuter/spay >> > the ones with the qualities we like, leaving the ferals to reproduce and >> > evolve. And there's plenty of evidence that a clowder of ferals wreaks >> > more havoc on a local ecosystem than a disorganized collection of house >> > cats ever does. (Distributions of house cats territory drop off at more >> > than ~100 m from their home. So unless the cat lives on the border of a >> > wild area, it's impact on wild life is quite small. In contrast, feral >> > clowders end up in wilder areas.) >> > >> > To boot, I have an anecdote. When we moved into this house, which is >> > buttressed by a fairly wild ravine with owls and wild rabbits and such, >> > there was a feral clowder living in a dilapidated house at the crook of >> > the ravine (which leads down toward capitol lake). Our alpha, Scooter, >> > kept fighting with at least one of these ferals. He lost quite badly one >> > time, but due to our policy of universal healthcare, Scooter lives to >> > fight again. Now the feral clowder is gone, thereby saving the lives of >> > who knows how many little critters in the ravine. Scooter sporadically >> > brings home a mouse, mole, or "little brown bird". But it's pretty rare >> > now that he's pushing 12 or 13. So, we could say he's an ecologically >> > ethical hunter, even if it's unintentional. >> > >> > In the end, though, my wildlife eco friend just loves dogs and hates cats. >> > 8^D My guess is his cognitive structure is more dog-like and mine is more >> > cat-like, after decades of being programmed by our pets. >> > >> > >> > [‡] >> > https://www.sciencenews.org/article/asian-giant-murder-hornets-new-map-habitat-united-states >> > >> >> On 8/24/21 4:39 PM, Steve Smith wrote: >> >> My first reaction to the subject line is one of my favorite parody >> >> attributions to redneck culture: "it's Diffr'nt, kill it!" but then I >> >> read the content and realized it was more apropos than I expected. >> >> >> >> I believe that something like "xenophobia" is an adaptive response in >> >> many contexts... we have some pretty deep instincts it seems that let >> >> us know to be "askeered" of "spiders and snakes" even if we'd never seen >> >> another ape respond that way. My dog has always been very (properly) >> >> fearful of snakes... otherwise her natural curious aggression would >> >> have had her dead-by-snakebite long ago... she went crazy everytime >> >> she saw a rattlesnake but always barked crazily from a good 6-10 feet >> >> away. She never alerted to a non-rattler that I knew of. And in the >> >> arms race of survival, it is natural that some "skeery" things will >> >> camoflauge as benign or friendly or cute. >> >> >> >> I am always a little nervous when large movements (especially gubbm'nt >> >> supported ) try to tap those instincts. It seems like a bad precedent >> >> to encourage formalized xenophobia even against helpless insects. The >> >> Charlottesville (and too many other) white-nationalists chanting "jews >> >> will not replace us" and all of Trump's fear-mongering are obvious (and >> >> ugly), but aspects of the B(lack) L(ives) M(atter) movement that perhaps >> >> overstated police culpability (in general not in specific cases), and >> >> Hillary's unfortunate election-forfieting statement calling Trump >> >> supporters "deplorables" (plenty of them were, but the brush was too >> >> broad and there was probably at least some backlash turnout over that >> >> one). Her "superpredator" comments, etc. in the 90's are another >> >> example. >> >> >> >> As for me, I have a nicely expanding set of stands of what is know >> >> locally as "Guaco" (critical to the black on black pottery process) in >> >> the pueblo nearby but more commonly known as "beeweed" among anglos... >> >> it turns out to be a particularly attractive nectar source for the >> >> Tarantula Hawk (or Tarantula Wasp), a big ole blue-black beast that >> >> looks like it could stun you with a sting and drag you to it's >> >> underground lair where it would insert it's fertilized eggs into your >> >> abdomen to hatch and thrive until the larva are ready to emerge and >> >> pupate ultimately into more giant scary wasps. The thing is, this is >> >> exactly what they do, but only with Tarantulae (and perhaps other large >> >> spiders?) but can hardly be induced to sting anything else (I think >> >> there is a YouTube Steve-Irwin wannabe who succeeded in getting one to >> >> sting him on camera, but while painful it was not acutely life or limb >> >> threatening). There are as many as a dozen or more of these wasps (and >> >> occasionally a few other pollinating insects) hanging around them. I >> >> approach them relatively casually but even when I drive up within a few >> >> feet on my way into the driveway or run my weedwhip into the ragweed >> >> surrounding the stand, they take no interest in me. I suppose if I >> >> were to violently attack them, they *might* respond in some offensive >> >> way, but most indications are, they reserve their sting for immobilizing >> >> their Tarantula baby-incubators. My immediate neighbors have lots of >> >> loud yard-grooming equipment and a whole shed full of pesticides and >> >> herbicides they run around spraying on everything in their yard, and >> >> while "beeweed" would never survive a week in their yard, I think they >> >> would be out machine-gunning these elegant (though menacing looking) >> >> wasps if they saw one. FWIW I have not seen a Tarantula at this >> >> location in the 2 decades I've lived her, I guess the wasps feed in my >> >> yard and reproduce elsewhere. >> >> >> >> My bottom line is that xenophobia is first-order adaptive, but humans >> >> need not be first-order (only) creatures. We *can* think past our >> >> initial reactions or herd-hysteria if we choose to. Or not. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > ☤>$ uǝlƃ >> > >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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