> Sorry. I meant no particular enthusiasm for a living wage as an > ultimate goal. The goal is, of course, to create a system that allows > a maximum number of people to do what they want. So each freedom for > one person is judged against restrictions it imposes on others. > > > > You could read the article … hint… hint. >
NST - If you refer to your article in The Environmentalist you linked recently, you may appreciate that I slipped it in near the top of my stack of other writings on early "Environment v. Development" perspectives and look forward to quaffing it in a single sitting. I appreciate that *few* who promote a "living wage" consider it an ultimate goal, maybe just a "good start" or "the least we can do". I tip well and shop local somewhat independent of quality of service (up to certain absurd thresholds) in this spirit. I figured out a few decades ago that it does ME no good to have others suffer unnecessarily, and that much of what is often dismissed as "not my problem" is really just a lack of attention to the web of implications in my life. Maybe Marcus' post-humans will have much better network-depth analysis built in, and will in fact "do the right thing" even when the first-order consequences seem to be against self-interest. Or maybe not. -SAS > > > Nick > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels > *Sent:* Saturday, August 7, 2021 1:41 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] off-label technologies, exaptatiion and > exponential technological growth. > > > > The pushback on everything from low wattage lighting to mask mandates > leaves me thinking that there is really only one thing that motivates > certain people: That they can do whatever the hell they want and, > crucially, that other people cannot. A living wage infringes on that > ranking and so must be terrible. What if there were physical space > for everyone, food for everyone, and many optional ways to invest > one’s time? What if one didn’t need a wage at all? What if you had > to decide for yourself what was worth doing? Heck, what if one (some > post-human) didn’t even need food and didn’t need to reproduce? > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith > *Sent:* Saturday, August 7, 2021 10:24 AM > *To:* friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] off-label technologies, exaptatiion and > exponential technological growth. > > > > NST - > > until Musk started being convincing (to me) that he might get a > modest number of humans TO Mars in his (and my?) lifetime. > > > > Rocket rich guys to Mars, fight a war against… (North Korea, Iran, > Russia, even China), ANYTHING to avoid paying a living wage on > earth. > > And what about "paying a living wage" does not simply continue an > oppressive system of "wage slavery"? > > There are stories that suggest the people who built the pyramids (the > ones who cut/hauled/placed the stones) were not literally slaves > (chains, whips, severe privation, chattel, threat of death, etc) but > rather a "fully utilized skilled labor class with sufficient resources > provided for a comfortable happy life". But it is not like they had > any upward mobility or alternative livelihood (Exodus notwithstanding). > > Anyone who has ever survived a "company town" knows that even if most > have modest houses, new vehicles, large screen TVs, and lots of tasty > food and drink and the hope of a gold watch and an RV to snowbird in > at retirement, that such dreams either are false utopias or at least > come to an end for the next generation or so. > > I don't endorse Mars Colonization nor continued/enhanced wage-slavery > at-poverty-level, and as a minimal "good start" I do endorse "living > wage". But I don't believe it does anything more than nudge the > boundaries of poverty far enough to keep those previously below the > poverty line from "eating the rich" (which *most* if not all of us > actually represent here)... some of us are more well marbled than others. > > Whether I like it or not, I'm pretty sure that Musk, the royalty of > the Emirates, China and gawdess knows who else will continue to angle > to colonize Mars. For me, it makes for a good enough opportunity for > the thought experiments around what it means to start fresh with a few > lessons learned. Of course, we may soon use up the earthlike planets > in our solar system and have to wait a few generations to start > Amurika-forming similar planets in other systems (assuming we don't > extinguish ourselves/one-another first). > > Or alternatively: "It's Complicated..." > > SAS > > > > N > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West > *Sent:* Saturday, August 7, 2021 9:49 AM > *To:* friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] off-label technologies, exaptatiion and > exponential technological growth. > > > > Highly recommend John Brunner's /The Sheep Look Up/ for fans of > ecological disaster. > > > > davew > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 6, 2021, at 8:28 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > > ... unbending the psychonaut thread > > And something will have to power the artificial > magnetosphere after the teraforming.. > > ... as I understand it, Mars lost it's magnetosphere a (long) > while back and nobody knows why (with the atmosphere and > liquid water following, blown off into space by the solar > wind). > > I think we should just wait another millisecond in our > exponential technological growth curve and build a Stapledon > Sphere <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaf_Stapledon> (more > commonly referenced as a Dyson Sphere) instead. Stapledon's > Golden Age era /_First and Last Men_/ presaged both > terraforming and genetic engineering . > > Jack Williamson (whose horn I toot here often), another Golden > Age author, wrote (in modernish times - 2001) the novel > Terraforming Earth (he died at 98 in 2006). A good friend of > mine (who introduced us) met Jack when he (my friend) was a > pre-teen and kept in touch for the next 50+ years, gave him > the title "Terraforming Terra" which Jack really liked but > they both were ultimately overruled by his publisher. > /Terraforming Terra /is much more poetic than /Terraforming > Earth/, no? > > (speaking of Terraforming... Mars) I held off reading Kim > Stanley Robinson's Red/Green/Blue Mars trilogy (ca early 90s) > until Musk started being convincing (to me) that he might get > a modest number of humans TO Mars in his (and my?) lifetime. > I'm still an ffFFFing luddite about these things, but I also > see an inevitable arc here. Robinson did a good job (I > thought) of characterizing the sociopoliticalspiritual > implications of all this. I forget how he solved the > magnetosphere problem (or powered it). > > For anyone who thinks there are endogenous existential threats > afoot (e.g. climate change) and also appreciates speculative > fiction, I highly recommend Robinson's Ministry-for-the-Future > > <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50998056-the-ministry-for-the-future> > written/published before COVID but not by much. While it > doesn't exhaustively discuss every > sociopoliticaleconomictechnical response to a tumbled gyro of > our noo-bio-cryo-sphere of a planet, it covers a lot very > convincingly. I don't suggest any of his maunderings will > come true or even have more than passing resemblance to the > future we are stumbling into in the next few decades, but it > was satisfying to read someone who has clearly researched the > hell out of the stuff coming at us like a swarm of bugs > hitting our windshield (while we proudly outdrive our headlights). > > > > On Aug 6, 2021, at 4:52 PM, Steve Smith > <sasm...@swcp.com> <mailto:sasm...@swcp.com> wrote: > > > > Marcus Daniels wrote: > > > > Don't forget about Mars! > > > > LANL physicist Steve Howe was a proponent of > plowsharing Rover > > <https://www.lanl.gov/science/NSS/issue1_2011/story4full.shtml> > into a nuclear rocket for Mars with the argument that > the radiation exposure to astronauts by the drive was > less than the extra time spent outside the earth's > magnetic field (charged-particle shield) in the > cosmic/solar radiation flux. > > He went on to promoting antimatter (anti-protons) instead: > > > > https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2020/06/steven-howe-breakthroughs-for-antimatter-production-and-storage.html > > <https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2020/06/steven-howe-breakthroughs-for-antimatter-production-and-storage.html> > > Oh yeh, and he's the first person I know to have > self-published (science) fiction through Amazon > (before Doug Roberts even). > > He used to carry a briefcase full of copies on his > work-travels to sell on the plane and/or restock the > rack at the ABQ Sunport. I Just checked his Amazon > page and it seems he's continued to riff: > > Steven-Howe > > <https://www.amazon.com/kindle-dbs/entity/author/B005L9MAL2?_encoding=UTF8&node=283155&offset=0&pageSize=12&searchAlias=stripbooks&sort=author-sidecar-rank&page=1&langFilter=default#formatSelectorHeader> > > His first book exposes his techno-libertarian > tendencies. I just learned of the sequel(s). > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > Sent: Friday, August 6, 2021 8:24 AM > > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' > <friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] for our psychonauts > > > > Reminds me of that period in which people were > desperately looking for something to do with nuclear explosives other than > kill one another. Like: "Let's blow a new hole in the Isthmus of Panama!" > Project Plowshares, it was called. > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > > Sent: Friday, August 6, 2021 10:57 AM > > To: FriAM <friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > > Subject: [FRIAM] for our psychonauts > > > > > > What Should We Make Of Sasha Chapin's Claim That Taking > LSD Restored His Sense Of Smell After COVID? > > > https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/what-should-we-make-of-sasha-chapins > <https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/what-should-we-make-of-sasha-chapins> > > > > I haven't read it, yet. 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