Yeah, Oregon will do that to you. -- rec --
On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 7:56 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> wrote: > Ok, I admit it. Some part of my reptile brain is confused when I see BLM > signs, because it hashes to the other thing.. for developmental reasons, I > guess. > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2021 4:18 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] civil war(s) > > > > I live on Bundy Lane (100 meters long, with three other households) off of > NM 502 and when I give directions to the house I describe it as "Bundy Lane > as in Al or Ted" but have had to add "or Ammon and Cliven" to be more > current. In another decade I hope none of those references mean anything. > > Yes, there is an element of "chumming" among all the "spinning" and > "churning". I also liked Glen's usage of "spinning" with "Wing Nuts" a > while back... if Doug were still with us, he'd probably throw in some > off-color reference to "Spinners" as well. The boon/bane of metaphor I > suppose. > > > > On 3/10/21 4:41 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote: > > Or chumming, as in throwing bloody fish in the water to attract sharks. > > > > I read BLM protests on first scan as a reference to the Bundy stand-off, > per Wikipedia: > > > > The 2014 *Bundy standoff* was an armed confrontation between supporters > of cattle rancher Cliven Bundy > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy> and law enforcement > following a 21-year legal dispute in which the United States Bureau of > Land Management <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management> > (BLM) > obtained court orders directing Bundy to pay over $1 million in withheld > grazing > fees <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grazing_fees#United_States> for > Bundy's use of federally owned land adjacent to Bundy's ranch in > southeastern Nevada <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada>. > > > > Just another note on the hazards of acronyms. Especially with erratic > memories involved. > > > > -- rec -- > > > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 3:28 PM Steve Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Not speaking for Nick, *I* think politics (vs statesmanship) are at the > very *least* _rhetorical_. I believe rhetoric often includes direct > deceit. A great deal of politics in the US today (maybe forever) is > acutely deceitful, even when it isn't attack-oriented. One party is > significantly more bold than the other in that regard. DaveW may invert > the sense of that judgement, but probably agrees that deceptive rhetoric is > a mainstay in politics. > > I think the "Civil War" metaphor isn't just deceitful, it is intentionally > provocative and deeply disingenuous. My personal opinion is that the angry > Right Mob and the Puppeteers yanking their strings wants a *literal* Civil > War so that they can exercise their superior firepower and brutality to > obtain/retain singular minority rule over a growing majority coalition of > minorities. I think the rhetoric of the last year from that quarter > trying to imply that the LEFT was on the verge of starting a hot Civil War > if they "didn't get their way" was more projection, and intended to create > a certain amount of cover and/or precedent for the type of coup attempt we > saw on December 37th and the acute threats of violence from the right that > has been bubbling for a very long time. > > Perhaps "Cold Civil War" is more apt and less suggestive of > endorsing/tolerating violence as a means. > > Even the most violent of BLM and related protests did not aspire to > overthrow government or reverse an election. While their attempts to hold > law enforcement accountable in response to specific recent incidents (it is > not a small list) and systemic abuses might have risen above a threshold of > violence that many of us might approve, the movement was NOT about > disenfranchising anyone except the very public servants who are supposed to > work for us ("Protect and Serve"). > > All that said, I'm not unsympathetic with the resentments "the common man" > has against their elected Representatives in our Republic, but any rhetoric > that suggests that the Left is worse than the Right is acutely > disingenuous. > > Regarding the term "spin"... I *do* think it is apt in the sense of > "making your head spin" but I think the metaphor of "churn" is yet more apt > in the sense that a great deal of the point seems to be to generate lots of > obfuscation by conflation. Muddying the waters... > > - Steve > > > > That's because you think politics is essentially deceitful? > > > > -- rec -- > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 1:59 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > > I always thought the metaphor was to a web of deceit. > > n > > > > Nick Thompson > > [email protected] > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Roger Critchlow > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2021 12:53 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] civil war(s) > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:34 PM Prof David West <[email protected]> > wrote: > > schisms might be a better metaphor than civil war. > > you are correct that there is, and always has been, "churn" among factions > within both parties and any significance given to a particular instance of > that churn e.g GOPS taking committee assignments away from a flake or the > Nevada state party instance — originate in the mind of the one pointing at > the event rather than intrinsic to the event itself. One reason that I find > most political headlines to be examples of wishful thinking rather than > communicators of significance. > > davew > > > > Second that, it's why they call it spin, cause it makes your head spin if > you pay too much attention. > > > > -- rec -- > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe> > > un/subscribe <http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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