Nick -
> Hi Steve, I have been pretty sick all day, sleep about tUUentytuuof > the last tUUenty four hours. Many of my symptoms are covidish, but I > have been as isolated as anybody on the planet, so I don’t knoUU UUtf > is going on. So, Just to say, I uuont be answering your splendid > message any time soon. > Wow dewd! I hope you are COVID (and influenza/etc.) free... This is a stale posting so there is no time-critical thing... just don't check out on us while we hold our breath waiting for your response! I hope your recover is shaped and informed by our collective thoughts/prayers/karmic/morphic-resonance - STeve > > > No > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 7, 2020 2:45 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Trump as a victim > > > > Nick - > > Shaping is done by geometric and physical constraints in my lexicon. > I use Informed to be more Inform-ational than physical and to suggest > that the "informing element/domain" actually provides some of the > "material" or "substance" or "content" than the "shaping domain" > would. Glen doesn't like us flapping on about metaphors expansively > and arbitrarily, but to imply that an emotional reaction has a "shape" > suggests more physicality and geometry than I intend. The "emotional > reaction" in discussion may well have a deep neurological pattern to > it, but *that* physical/geometric/topological shape is likely very > difficult to map onto what I mean when I think "emotional > reaction". To be self-referential, "what is the shape of your > emotional reaction" to my (and others?!) use of the term "informed" do > you think? *I* think your emotional reaction is likely *informed* by > previous experiences you have had with "hoity toity" (Glen's term of > art for much of our prattling/bloviating here, methinks) words being > used where something simple and utilitarian could be used mo' better. > Maybe other uses of "informed" have been more egregious (or at least > less intentional) than my own here, leaving you with a "hair trigger" > on the topic. > > I'm probably just picking fights here because I wouldn't get past the > first perimeter of the White House... prodding at others' "triggers" > (I have a particular aversion to that word for my own reasons which > are probably *shaped* (or informed?) by the metaphorical domain > implied of perhaps firearms, explosive devices or other kinetic > weapons). One of my biggest triggers perhaps is the use of the term > "trigger" in an emotional context. It makes me want to "go off" on > the person messing with my "trigger". I suppose one could say it is > a "hair trigger"? So, in the future, I will *shape* my sentences to > avoid using the term *inform* outside of the literal usage of one > individual transmitting *information* to another! > > This is all in fun of course... I'm really not triggered here nor > trying to trigger anyone else beyond the superficial. Displacing > hand-wringing with vapid banter perhaps. > > Carry on, > > - Stee > > “shaped”, steve. It was shaped. You know what “shaped” means. > Nobody knows what “informed” means, in that usage. > > > > And if you ever use “incredibly” to mean “very” or “incredible” to > mean good, I will come after you with pitchforks. Somebody said > on a podcast that the NYTimes had some incredible reporters. In > an age in which credibility is the central issue of our time, we > do not want to fudge its meaning. > > > > n > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 7, 2020 10:34 AM > *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Trump as a victim > > > > > > Marcus Daniels wrote: > > Once one practices modulating a class of these feelings it > changes how or even if one experiences them. Having empathy > can just be another form of being reactive which is not a good > way for adults to be IMO. It is equally reactive to be > enraged every time Trump or Trumpers are on TV. They > dehumanized themselves. > > I believe that suppressing one's pity/sympathy/empathy/compassion > entirely is the "reactive" mode... I suspect our friend Donald > started down that path at a very young age and has only the barest > echoes or ghosts of those feelings remaining. I knew too many > "western men" as a child who seemed to have done the same with > their relationship to nature and animals... being brutal with > predators/varmints leading to a certain brutality to prey (game > animals) to their own working stock (cattle, sheep, rabbits, > horses, dogs) and then ultimately their families (wives, children) > and could-have-been friends. They were not devoid of this, but > there was something about the lifestyle and circumstance (and > social context) that seemed to strongly encourage, if not require, > that suppression of empathy. > > As a teen I was faced with a looming conscription to go to Vietnam > and "kill some gooks" (sorry for the patently non-PC framing, but > it captures at least half of the image of the time) as well as > being faced with letting that happen and returning to the other > half of the country shouting "baby killer" in my face. I *knew* > that these were not my only two choices, but it forced > (opportuned?) me to consider what I had to lose if I let my own > country (and most of it's citizens) inject me (like a pinball) > into that pinball game of "no good choices". What I had to lose > was my empathy, as underformed and possibly even maladapted as it > was at 14 or 16 or 18 years old. > > I am not willing to treat empathy as nothing more than an > "emotional reaction", though I acknowledge that it is informed > (sorry Nick, I can't help using that idiom) by a deep emotional > experience. Perhaps Empathy is to Pity as Justice is to > Revenge... most of the Right might think this is splitting > hairs, and perhaps they have swayed the Left into the same > perspective? Everyone's loss. > > - Steve > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]> *On Behalf Of > *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 7, 2020 9:07 AM > *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' > <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Trump as a victim > > > > Glen, > > > > I don't think of empathy as something that you gin up; it > either happens to you, or it doesn't. And then you decide > what you want to do with your empathy. As a child, perhaps,, > did you ever read any of Ernest Thompson Seton's (no relative) > */Lives of the Hunted/*? The wolf, terror of the Corrumpaw > (?), wily killer of sheep, evader of traps, lies before you in > a cage, wounded and helpless. You feel empathy. And so you > kill it. Anybody who tells you that you /should/ feel empathy > lacks empathy for your lack of empathy. I WILL feel empathy > for Trump when he's tried. I dread those trials. In fact, > even watching him twist and lie and twist and lie, watching > him contort, makes me queasy inside, like watching a man > tortured. But empathy, like rage, is just another emotion, > and needs, like all emotions, to be tempered with reason. > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? > Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 6:54 AM > To: FriAM <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Trump as a victim > > > > A collection of people, who shall remain nameless, recently > tried to shame me for objecting to their waste of empathy for > poor lil ol Trump, in light of his infection. One argument > went something like "His father was horrible." One primary > argument went something like "empathy begets empathy". Empathy > is not zero-sum. Etc. > > > > I started my objection to all this Trump-as-a-victim talk by > listing several aspects of his CHARMED LIFE, like the fact > that he's lucky enough to have lived to a ripe old age (when > so many of us die young), he was born wealthy (when so many of > us live our entire lives dirt poor), his stupid TV show was > wildly successful (when so many of us are serial failures), > his weaponized litigousness has benefited him throughout his > life (when so many of us can't even afford a lawyer). Etc. > > > > All that *privilege* has been bestowed upon him. And it seems, > to me, he's squandered it all. He reminds me of those pitiful > pictures of Saddam Hussein in court and then prison and then > dead. Oh boo-hoo, poor little dictator being mistreated. Such > sentiments are not merely weird to me. If game theory and the > success of simplistic tit-for-tat has taught us anything, it > is that the algorithmic *depth* required to beat > straightforward (poetic) "justice" is academically > interesting, but pragmatically degenerate. > > > > So, no. I will not waste any of my finite lifetime feeling > sorry for poor lil ol Trump, our Privilege Squanderer in > Chief. If that magically limits my ability to empathize in > some other context, so be it. If it implies that when I die > pathetically, under some bridge, eating partial hamburgers > from the Wendy's dumpster, my colleagues *rightly* avoid > wasting their finite lifetimes feeling sorry for me, then I'm > ready for that day. Like it or not, tu quoque is a fallacy. > > > > -- > > ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
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