Dave writes: < "They" is a very small number of individuals who directly control/influence the existing impeachment effort — Schiff and 50+ percent of House Members, Hillary and her closest cohort, a finite number of columnists, pundits, and commentators. >
< There was no implication that your ego was bruised, nor anyone else's outside of the very small number (500-1000) that I included in my definition of "They." > I regularly get surveys from my representatives and from the national funding organizations associated with the Democratic party. On these surveys, are one or more "fight Trump" options, amongst other priorities like gun control and healthcare. I check them, above the others. I don't care who controls/influences the mechanics of the impeachment, provided they are capable. Adam Schiff is pretty capable. I don't care if it inflames the culture war. The culture war needs to be inflamed because the other side is just wrong. < One tiny example: I was in the US the month of October and talking with a large number of ranchers. The conversations were about conservation and climate change. These people know far more about conservation and far more about how cattle contribute to green-house gasses than (almost) anyone in the government bureaucracy charged with writing rules and regulations. > < They dismiss ideas, like solving the cow flatulence problem by banning meat and making everyone a vegetarian/vegan, as nonsense, not because they deny the climate effect, but because they are working on a better way to address the problem - and they know it is better because they have the data and a forward way of thinking about that data. > Ruminants are inefficient at converting energy into tissue, that's the biological bottom line. If ranchers really wanted to reduce to reduce the massive land and water waste to raising beef, and additional energy expenditures, they'd reworking their businesses toward producing ingredients for taste-compatible beef replacements or cultured meat. It is often possible now even in small restaurants to buy an Impossible Burger or a Beyond Meat burger. The best cars today are electric cars, and likewise through engineering food can be improved too. Humans are also to blame<https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-05/scientists-call-for-population-control-in-mass-climate-alarm> for greenhouse gases. A large population is positively related to a big GDP<https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-global-fertility-crash/>. A sane leader would see that the two are compatible, and encourage integration of immigrants into our population. A sane government would discourage reproduction and encourage adoption using tax incentives. But no, Trump and the so-called conservatives carry on with their unsustainable nativist madness. < I hope that when you talk about the "red hat folks," you are also speaking of a small, very small actually, percentage of those supporting Trump. The vast majority of Trump supporters are NOT "People with a backward way of thinking that need constant oversight. A danger to themselves and others." > The man is a demagogue, a narcissist, a racist, a pathological liar, and a reactive and impulsive person. He is corrupt. He is the antithesis of a leader. Handing the keys to someone like that is bad enough, but wanting to it to continue in light of the accumulation of evidence we've seen over the last three years (or on any one day) is unforgivable. Anyone that supports Trump should be ashamed of themselves. Marcus ________________________________ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 2:26 AM To: friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] capitalism vs. individualism Marcus, There was no implication that your ego was bruised, nor anyone else's outside of the very small number (500-1000) that I included in my definition of "They." I hope that when you talk about the "red hat folks," you are also speaking of a small, very small actually, percentage of those supporting Trump. The vast majority of Trump supporters are NOT "People with a backward way of thinking that need constant oversight. A danger to themselves and others." One tiny example: I was in the US the month of October and talking with a large number of ranchers. The conversations were about conservation and climate change. These people know far more about conservation and far more about how cattle contribute to green-house gasses than (almost) anyone in the government bureaucracy charged with writing rules and regulations. The ranchers (and I am excluding the large corporate ranches, but there are fewer of them than there are of corporate farms) are constantly seeking and applying knowledge to enhance conservation and to ameliorate adverse affects on climate. They justifiably take umbrage at the imposition of uninformed/misinformed regulations that frequently make things worse. They dismiss ideas, like solving the cow flatulence problem by banning meat and making everyone a vegetarian/vegan, as nonsense, not because they deny the climate effect, but because they are working on a better way to address the problem - and they know it is better because they have the data and a forward way of thinking about that data. And most of them are wearing red hats (actually the favored re-election hat is black with a flag motif on half the brim). davew On Sat, Nov 9, 2019, at 7:56 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Dave writes: > > "And, in the case of Trump, motivated by deeply bruised egos." > > It is just not so. Sure, I was disappointed when George W was > elected. I was disappointed by what I saw was a preference too many > people had for a good 'old boy rather than a person with ideas for > governance. When 9/11 happened, I was supportive of the use of > violence. I remember his State of the Union address and being amazed I > supported this guy -- the loyal opposition. But this is what had to > be done. That carried over to Obama with the drone strikes too. Ugly > measures are sometimes needed for the greater good, or at least our > good. > > I see the red hat folks in much the same way I see militant Islamists. > People with a backward way of thinking that need constant oversight. > A danger to themselves and others. They are cultural regressions > waiting to happen, and both of them did. It really doesn't have > anything to do with Hillary and Donald. > > Marcus > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
