Dave, Funny. I don't read Schiff that way. I don't watch any TV, and get all my news from text or podcasts, so I may be missing a lot of nonverbals. But I thought his "It's not OK that ..." speech of a year or so back was terrific. I read him as a prosecutor. His job is to present the case.
I do agree about A.O.C. But she was playing a different role. What was splendid about her questioning was the disciplined manner in which she stayed within the bounds of the role she was playing. She let the case present itself. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 2:00 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] capitalism vs. individualism Glen, Your "larger point is that communities are > responsible for policing themselves. Everyone should *welcome* > challenges to their narrative. So, Obama should have welcomed > impeachment inquiries into his actions. Trump should welcome the > impeachment inquiry *and* that into Russian interference. All rational > people should welcome challenges to their words and actions." is dead on, with a minor caveat: ... rational people should welcome rational challenges ... What Schiff, and the 500-1000 people I am including in "They" is not rational - it is emotional and ego-driven. Based on her questioning of several Trump admin witnesses, Ocasio-Cortez should be leading the impeachment effort - quiet, informed, questions that clearly demonstrate the errors of the other side — rational challenges absent all the ad hominen rhetoric. It would quickly be obvious to the majority of the population why Trump should be removed. And, in the short run, it would give the Republicans the grounds for actually supporting impeachment and convicting — something that will never happen with the toxic-partisan Schiff-led efforts. davew On Sat, Nov 9, 2019, at 3:49 PM, glen∈ℂ wrote: > While I agree that your *narrative* is plausible, I'm always skeptical > of such narratives. The system is more complex than these stories we > tell ourselves. I didn't confidently support impeachment until Trump > released his readout of the Ukraine call. And most of my more > conservative friends didn't support impeachment until the > whistleblower came forward. Those who've been shouting for Trump's > impeachment for years were not in control of the process. > > More importantly, I think Obama should have been impeached, as well. > To me, his drone strikes were very close to crimes against humanity ... > but, of course, crimes against humanity may not be crimes against our > country... I don't know. But the larger point is that communities are > responsible for policing themselves. Everyone should *welcome* > challenges to their narrative. So, Obama should have welcomed > impeachment inquiries into his actions. Trump should welcome the > impeachment inquiry *and* that into Russian interference. All rational > people should welcome challenges to their words and actions. > > Think of impeachment like your friend telling you there's spinach in your > teeth. > > On 11/9/19 12:05 AM, Prof David West wrote: > > "They" is a very small number of individuals who directly control/influence > > the existing impeachment effort — Schiff and 50+ percent of House Members, > > Hillary and her closest cohort, a finite number of columnists, pundits, and > > commentators. > > > > In my opinion, both the Clinton and the Trump impeachment efforts were not > > motivated by, and did not actualize, a very necessary system of checks and > > balances. Both were motivated by personal and partisan animosity. > > > > And, in the case of Trump, motivated by deeply bruised egos. > > > > "They" cannot believe that 49% of the electorate and most of the populace > > outside of the northeast, west coast, and enclaves like Santa Fe, could > > possibly disagree with them. Therefore, Trump supporters are certifiably: > > racists, deplorables, and/or uneducated fools. And Trump has to be > > illegitimate, and must be removed from office for no other reason than he > > is a symbol of "Their" failures. > > > > Impeachment is the wrong tool, wielded by the wrong people, for the wrong > > reasons, at the wrong time. > > > > Its inevitable failure will almost guarantee "four more years" and, far > > more importantly, devalue an essential check & balance tool to the point > > that future Houses will shy from its use and open the door to "really bad > > things." > > > > There are so many other ways that the country could have been > > protected from Trump and his re-election made impossible. But those > > alternatives would require reason, effort, and, most importantly for > > "They," some "agonizing reappraisal." (Mao) > > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College to unsubscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
