For those interested in the Algebraic Geometry thread, I have so far been very impressed with the text: 'Elementary Algebraic Geometry <https://www.springer.com/us/book/9781461569015>' by Keith Kendig. Even if another text is chosen, I will likely continue to use this one as a supplementary text. Also, though not perhaps suitable as a reading group text, I have been working through 'An invitation to Algebraic <https://www.springer.com/us/book/9780387989808> Geometry <https://www.springer.com/us/book/9780387989808>' by Karen Smith et al. It is very terse and moves very quickly, yet it is very insightful.
On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 12:33 AM <friam-requ...@redfish.com> wrote: > Send Friam mailing list submissions to > friam@redfish.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > friam-requ...@redfish.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > friam-ow...@redfish.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Open Letter, draft #2 (John Kennison) > 2. Re: Open Letter, draft #2 (John Kennison) > 3. Re: Open Letter, draft #2 (Marcus Daniels) > 4. Re: Open Letter, draft #2 (Frank Wimberly) > 5. Re: Open Letter, draft #2 (John Kennison) > 6. Re: Open Letter, draft #2 (Frank Wimberly) > 7. Re: Open Letter, draft #2 (Nick Thompson) > 8. Formalizing the concept of design (Nick Thompson) > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: John Kennison <jkenni...@clarku.edu> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 18:32:37 +0000 > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > Hi Marcus, Frank, et al, > > > I am a mathematician who knows category theory, which Rosen seems to > have found exciting. My thinking about a machine that would learn how to > reprogram itself is surely at a naive level, but it seems to me that it > would feel more like a being than a machine. All I know about Genetic > Programming is what I just read after Googling that term and it looks like > great idea. Frank's credentials are impressive but I don't know enough to, > as yet, formulate a reasonable question to him. > > > It looks that some very sophisticated programs can evolve and reprogram > themselves which means, I think, that sequential machines can do amazing > things. I guess my question would be: > > > Is there something that animals, or more particularly humans, can do which > we can prove cannot be duplicated by a sequential machine?' > > > I have read Dennett's "Consciousness Explained" and Hofstadter's "I am a > Strange Loop". There are parts of each book which still seem vague to me, > but it seems likely that the answer to the above question is "No". But > then I would need a different approach to trying to figure out what Rosen > might be driving at. (I once had s copy of Rosen's "Life Itself" but > I can't find it now --so I ordered a used copy for about $9.). > > > On Geometric Algebra --my Googling of this term suggests that it has to do > with what I would call tensors, which I saw briefly in an undergraduate > Physics course, and very abstractly in a graduate Math course. I convinced > myself they were about the same thing > > > --John > ------------------------------ > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Marcus Daniels < > mar...@snoutfarm.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 27, 2018 11:11:10 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > How idoes genetic programming with automatic function definition not > achieve this? > > > > *From: *Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of John Kennison < > jkenni...@clarku.edu> > *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Date: *Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 6:21 AM > *To: *"Friam@redfish. com" <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > > I like the idea of a non-sequential machine, or perhaps, a being, whose > operation is NOT determined by knowing how its component parts function. I > don’t see how to go about constructing such a thing, unless I assume that > there are laws of physics which remain undiscovered. So for now, I will > settle on trying to describe a ``machine’’ which is not a sequential > machine. I think that Rosen is right in saying that having a parallel > machine (in which various operations happen simultaneously) will not do the > trick because given any parallel machine one can define a sequential > machine that functions in the same way. One might make a machine in which > the outputs only happen with a certain specified probability, but I don’t > think that is different enough. So I rephrase the problem as describing an > entity that receives inputs and produces outputs that is cannot be > duplicated (or reasonably modeled) by a probabilistic sequential machine > (one in which the outputs happen with a specified probability). I thought > of starting with a sequential machine, which has rules for how to react to > inputs when in a given state. But now let’s suppose that the rules may > change. The entity is capable of learning new rules. This seems more > biological –the entity can reprogram itself. But I find that naive ways of > reprograming can probably be duplicated by a sequential machine. For > example, if the machine reprograms when dissatisfied with previous > performance, then there is a new state, of being dissatisfied, and the > reprograming activity can, it seems, be re-expressed as more sophisticated > rules for producing an output. > > > > --John > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Tom Johnson < > t...@jtjohnson.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 24, 2018 4:23:01 PM > *To:* Friam@redfish. com > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > > Yes, but not with multiple signatories. Sorry. > > > ============================================ > Tom Johnson > Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA > 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h) > *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org> > *Check out It's The People's Data > <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>* > > http://www.jtjohnson.com t...@jtjohnson.com > ============================================ > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:45 AM Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > Thanks, Tom, > > > > Still trying to figure out logistics. I have written the NM-ican to find > out how to submit a letter from many signers, but got no response. Do you > have any experience with this? > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom > Johnson > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 24, 2018 11:14 AM > *To:* Friam@redfish. com <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > > I will sign on, Nick. > > Tom Johnson, Professor Emeritus, San Francisco State University > > > > ============================================ > Tom Johnson > Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA > 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h) > *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org> > *Check out It's The People's Data > <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>* > > http://www.jtjohnson.com t...@jtjohnson.com > ============================================ > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 6:09 PM Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > Hi, all, > > > > Here is a new draft of the open letter, pared down to meet the New > Mexican’s requirements. I have a few signatories, would love some more. I > will bring the letter with me to our service on Friday. Even if you don’t > plan to sign, please feel free to point out typos and other infelicities. > > > > Nick > > > > *To the New Mexican* > > *We are industrial researchers and retired college professors, living in > Santa Fe. We urge all Santa Feans to vote, but particularly young voters > and their parents. Institutions of learning and their students are under > stress. Every day, we meet young people as dedicated to learning as our > best research students in the 70’s and 80’s, yet are working as cashiers, > ride hail drivers, waiters and waitresses. Under present conditions, these > talented young people cannot afford to go to university and, without that > training, will never take up the leadership positions their talent should > make possible. The nation will need these students as our generation > retires from institutes, government laboratories, colleges, and > universities. Please take time to vote and to tell your representatives to > support education at every level. The future safety and prosperity of our > nation depends on it. * > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: John Kennison <jkenni...@clarku.edu> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 18:39:23 +0000 > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > P.S. I just realized that when Frank said "Look no further than me" he was > not referring to his considerable knowledge, but to himself. It's a nice > point. > > JK > ------------------------------ > *From:* John Kennison > *Sent:* Saturday, October 27, 2018 2:32:37 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > Hi Marcus, Frank, et al, > > > I am a mathematician who knows category theory, which Rosen seems to > have found exciting. My thinking about a machine that would learn how to > reprogram itself is surely at a naive level, but it seems to me that it > would feel more like a being than a machine. All I know about Genetic > Programming is what I just read after Googling that term and it looks like > great idea. Frank's credentials are impressive but I don't know enough to, > as yet, formulate a reasonable question to him. > > > It looks that some very sophisticated programs can evolve and reprogram > themselves which means, I think, that sequential machines can do amazing > things. I guess my question would be: > > > Is there something that animals, or more particularly humans, can do which > we can prove cannot be duplicated by a sequential machine?' > > > I have read Dennett's "Consciousness Explained" and Hofstadter's "I am a > Strange Loop". There are parts of each book which still seem vague to me, > but it seems likely that the answer to the above question is "No". But > then I would need a different approach to trying to figure out what Rosen > might be driving at. (I once had s copy of Rosen's "Life Itself" but > I can't find it now --so I ordered a used copy for about $9.). > > > On Geometric Algebra --my Googling of this term suggests that it has to do > with what I would call tensors, which I saw briefly in an undergraduate > Physics course, and very abstractly in a graduate Math course. I convinced > myself they were about the same thing > > > --John > ------------------------------ > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Marcus Daniels < > mar...@snoutfarm.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 27, 2018 11:11:10 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > How idoes genetic programming with automatic function definition not > achieve this? > > > > *From: *Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of John Kennison < > jkenni...@clarku.edu> > *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Date: *Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 6:21 AM > *To: *"Friam@redfish. com" <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > > I like the idea of a non-sequential machine, or perhaps, a being, whose > operation is NOT determined by knowing how its component parts function. I > don’t see how to go about constructing such a thing, unless I assume that > there are laws of physics which remain undiscovered. So for now, I will > settle on trying to describe a ``machine’’ which is not a sequential > machine. I think that Rosen is right in saying that having a parallel > machine (in which various operations happen simultaneously) will not do the > trick because given any parallel machine one can define a sequential > machine that functions in the same way. One might make a machine in which > the outputs only happen with a certain specified probability, but I don’t > think that is different enough. So I rephrase the problem as describing an > entity that receives inputs and produces outputs that is cannot be > duplicated (or reasonably modeled) by a probabilistic sequential machine > (one in which the outputs happen with a specified probability). I thought > of starting with a sequential machine, which has rules for how to react to > inputs when in a given state. But now let’s suppose that the rules may > change. The entity is capable of learning new rules. This seems more > biological –the entity can reprogram itself. But I find that naive ways of > reprograming can probably be duplicated by a sequential machine. For > example, if the machine reprograms when dissatisfied with previous > performance, then there is a new state, of being dissatisfied, and the > reprograming activity can, it seems, be re-expressed as more sophisticated > rules for producing an output. > > > > --John > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Tom Johnson < > t...@jtjohnson.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 24, 2018 4:23:01 PM > *To:* Friam@redfish. com > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > > Yes, but not with multiple signatories. Sorry. > > > ============================================ > Tom Johnson > Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA > 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h) > *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org> > *Check out It's The People's Data > <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>* > > http://www.jtjohnson.com t...@jtjohnson.com > ============================================ > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:45 AM Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > Thanks, Tom, > > > > Still trying to figure out logistics. I have written the NM-ican to find > out how to submit a letter from many signers, but got no response. Do you > have any experience with this? > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom > Johnson > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 24, 2018 11:14 AM > *To:* Friam@redfish. com <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > > I will sign on, Nick. > > Tom Johnson, Professor Emeritus, San Francisco State University > > > > ============================================ > Tom Johnson > Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA > 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h) > *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org> > *Check out It's The People's Data > <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>* > > http://www.jtjohnson.com t...@jtjohnson.com > ============================================ > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 6:09 PM Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > Hi, all, > > > > Here is a new draft of the open letter, pared down to meet the New > Mexican’s requirements. I have a few signatories, would love some more. I > will bring the letter with me to our service on Friday. Even if you don’t > plan to sign, please feel free to point out typos and other infelicities. > > > > Nick > > > > *To the New Mexican* > > *We are industrial researchers and retired college professors, living in > Santa Fe. We urge all Santa Feans to vote, but particularly young voters > and their parents. Institutions of learning and their students are under > stress. Every day, we meet young people as dedicated to learning as our > best research students in the 70’s and 80’s, yet are working as cashiers, > ride hail drivers, waiters and waitresses. Under present conditions, these > talented young people cannot afford to go to university and, without that > training, will never take up the leadership positions their talent should > make possible. The nation will need these students as our generation > retires from institutes, government laboratories, colleges, and > universities. Please take time to vote and to tell your representatives to > support education at every level. The future safety and prosperity of our > nation depends on it. * > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 18:56:49 +0000 > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > John writes: > > > > “Is there something that animals, or more particularly humans, can do > which we can prove cannot be duplicated by a sequential machine?” > > > > A sequential computer program could simply be a loop that sampled random > numbers and indexed into the address space of the computer program itself > (not its memory). One could make a specialized computer using a FPGA that > even had an instruction to do that random dispatching. To counter the > arguments of Penrose, one could do the same using quantum states. > > > > https://www.springer.com/us/book/9781402078941 > > > > There are all kinds of physical processes that are simulated on classical > supercomputers, of course. > > > > Marcus > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 15:53:53 -0600 > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > Sorry, John. It was a weak attempt to be humorous. > > Also, I mistyped. I meant "algebraic geometry" when I was asking for a > book recommendation. > > Frank > > ----------------------------------- > Frank Wimberly > > My memoir: > https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > My scientific publications: > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 12:56 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> > wrote: > >> John writes: >> >> >> >> “Is there something that animals, or more particularly humans, can do >> which we can prove cannot be duplicated by a sequential machine?” >> >> >> >> A sequential computer program could simply be a loop that sampled random >> numbers and indexed into the address space of the computer program itself >> (not its memory). One could make a specialized computer using a FPGA that >> even had an instruction to do that random dispatching. To counter the >> arguments of Penrose, one could do the same using quantum states. >> >> >> >> https://www.springer.com/us/book/9781402078941 >> >> >> >> There are all kinds of physical processes that are simulated on classical >> supercomputers, of course. >> >> >> >> Marcus >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: John Kennison <jkenni...@clarku.edu> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 23:16:29 +0000 > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > Hi Frank, > > > I didn't realize it was supposed to be a joke --it seemed like a relevant > example. I'm not an algebraic geometer but: > > > . . . there is a historical survey in > https://www.ime.usp.br/~pleite/pub/artigos/abhyankar/abhyankar.pdf > Historical Ramblings in Algebraic Geometry and Related Algebra > <https://www.ime.usp.br/~pleite/pub/artigos/abhyankar/abhyankar.pdf> > www.ime.usp.br > Historical Ramblings in Algebraic Geometry and Related Algebra Author(s): > Shreeram S. Abhyankar Source: The American Mathematical Monthly, Vol. 83, > No. 6 (Jun. - Jul ... > > > <https://www.ime.usp.br/~pleite/pub/artigos/abhyankar/abhyankar.pdf>If > you read that you can tell if you like Ahbyankar's style. He wrote a more > thorough survey in 295 pages called "Algebraic Geometry for Scientists and > Engineers'' (including computer scientists. > > > --John > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Frank Wimberly < > wimber...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 27, 2018 5:53:53 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > Sorry, John. It was a weak attempt to be humorous. > > Also, I mistyped. I meant "algebraic geometry" when I was asking for a > book recommendation. > > Frank > > ----------------------------------- > Frank Wimberly > > My memoir: > https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > My scientific publications: > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 12:56 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> > wrote: > > John writes: > > > > “Is there something that animals, or more particularly humans, can do > which we can prove cannot be duplicated by a sequential machine?” > > > > A sequential computer program could simply be a loop that sampled random > numbers and indexed into the address space of the computer program itself > (not its memory). One could make a specialized computer using a FPGA that > even had an instruction to do that random dispatching. To counter the > arguments of Penrose, one could do the same using quantum states. > > > > https://www.springer.com/us/book/9781402078941 > > > > There are all kinds of physical processes that are simulated on classical > supercomputers, of course. > > > > Marcus > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 17:23:38 -0600 > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > Well, I'm not a sequential machine although my wife has her doubts. > > Thanks for the algebraic geometry suggestions. Jon Zingale and I will try > to master the subject. Others may join us on Saturday mornings if they > wish. > > Frank > > ----------------------------------- > Frank Wimberly > > My memoir: > https://wacsequentisl mww.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > My scientific publications: > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 5:16 PM John Kennison <jkenni...@clarku.edu> wrote: > >> Hi Frank, >> >> >> I didn't realize it was supposed to be a joke --it seemed like a relevant >> example. I'm not an algebraic geometer but: >> >> >> . . . there is a historical survey in >> https://www.ime.usp.br/~pleite/pub/artigos/abhyankar/abhyankar.pdf >> Historical Ramblings in Algebraic Geometry and Related Algebra >> <https://www.ime.usp.br/~pleite/pub/artigos/abhyankar/abhyankar.pdf> >> www.ime.usp.br >> Historical Ramblings in Algebraic Geometry and Related Algebra Author(s): >> Shreeram S. Abhyankar Source: The American Mathematical Monthly, Vol. 83, >> No. 6 (Jun. - Jul ... >> >> >> <https://www.ime.usp.br/~pleite/pub/artigos/abhyankar/abhyankar.pdf>If >> you read that you can tell if you like Ahbyankar's style. He wrote a more >> thorough survey in 295 pages called "Algebraic Geometry for Scientists and >> Engineers'' (including computer scientists. >> >> >> --John >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Frank Wimberly < >> wimber...@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Saturday, October 27, 2018 5:53:53 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 >> >> Sorry, John. It was a weak attempt to be humorous. >> >> Also, I mistyped. I meant "algebraic geometry" when I was asking for a >> book recommendation. >> >> Frank >> >> ----------------------------------- >> Frank Wimberly >> >> My memoir: >> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly >> >> My scientific publications: >> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 >> >> Phone (505) 670-9918 >> >> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 12:56 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> >> wrote: >> >> John writes: >> >> >> >> “Is there something that animals, or more particularly humans, can do >> which we can prove cannot be duplicated by a sequential machine?” >> >> >> >> A sequential computer program could simply be a loop that sampled random >> numbers and indexed into the address space of the computer program itself >> (not its memory). One could make a specialized computer using a FPGA that >> even had an instruction to do that random dispatching. To counter the >> arguments of Penrose, one could do the same using quantum states. >> >> >> >> https://www.springer.com/us/book/9781402078941 >> >> >> >> There are all kinds of physical processes that are simulated on classical >> supercomputers, of course. >> >> >> >> Marcus >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" < > friam@redfish.com> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 18:05:12 -0600 > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > Frank, Jon, John, etc., > > > > I wish you guys would look at Rosen. I would be happy to loan you my > copy. In Chapter 4, The Concept of State, he is arguing that assumptions > deep in Newtonian Mechanics preclude or constrain a discussion of > biological organization (let alone, a psychological one) leading to a > fallacious sense of reduceability. His argument is mathematical, and > involves assumptions built into what he calls Newtonian “chronicles”, > mathematical expressions that have time of occurrence on the x axis and > position, or velocity, or acceleration, or … or etc. on the Y. Something > about the manner in which Newton sets this all up is claimed to obscure > organizational properties of systems. Somehow, the problem of organization > is made to disappear. Best I can do. > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank > Wimberly > *Sent:* Saturday, October 27, 2018 5:24 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > > Well, I'm not a sequential machine although my wife has her doubts. > > > > Thanks for the algebraic geometry suggestions. Jon Zingale and I will try > to master the subject. Others may join us on Saturday mornings if they > wish. > > > > Frank > > ----------------------------------- > Frank Wimberly > > My memoir: > https://wacsequentisl mww.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > My scientific publications: > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 5:16 PM John Kennison <jkenni...@clarku.edu> wrote: > > Hi Frank, > > > > I didn't realize it was supposed to be a joke --it seemed like a relevant > example. I'm not an algebraic geometer but: > > > > . . . there is a historical survey in > https://www.ime.usp.br/~pleite/pub/artigos/abhyankar/abhyankar.pdf > > Historical Ramblings in Algebraic Geometry and Related Algebra > <https://www.ime.usp.br/~pleite/pub/artigos/abhyankar/abhyankar.pdf> > > www.ime.usp.br > > Historical Ramblings in Algebraic Geometry and Related Algebra Author(s): > Shreeram S. Abhyankar Source: The American Mathematical Monthly, Vol. 83, > No. 6 (Jun. - Jul ... > > > > > > If you read that you can tell if you like Ahbyankar's style. He wrote a > more thorough survey in 295 pages called "Algebraic Geometry for Scientists > and Engineers'' (including computer scientists. > > > > --John > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Frank Wimberly < > wimber...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 27, 2018 5:53:53 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > > Sorry, John. It was a weak attempt to be humorous. > > > > Also, I mistyped. I meant "algebraic geometry" when I was asking for a > book recommendation. > > > > Frank > > ----------------------------------- > Frank Wimberly > > My memoir: > https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > My scientific publications: > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 12:56 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> > wrote: > > John writes: > > > > “Is there something that animals, or more particularly humans, can do > which we can prove cannot be duplicated by a sequential machine?” > > > > A sequential computer program could simply be a loop that sampled random > numbers and indexed into the address space of the computer program itself > (not its memory). One could make a specialized computer using a FPGA that > even had an instruction to do that random dispatching. To counter the > arguments of Penrose, one could do the same using quantum states. > > > > https://www.springer.com/us/book/9781402078941 > > > > There are all kinds of physical processes that are simulated on classical > supercomputers, of course. > > > > Marcus > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" < > friam@redfish.com> > Cc: "'Jon Zingale'" <jonzing...@gmail.com>, Frank Wimberly < > wimber...@gmail.com> > Bcc: > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:32:56 -0600 > Subject: [FRIAM] Formalizing the concept of design > > Dear Frank, Jon, Eric, and anybody else, > > > > OK. Let me be blunt. I wish that the mathematically inclined among you > would help me. As I have told you all before, my brother was a > mathematician and I got one of his two math genes, which was enough to give > me vague mathematical intuitions but not enough that I could actually make > good on more than a few of them. I have long been carrying around in my > head the notion of “design arrays" which I have offered as a kind of > universal way of looking at such troublesome concepts as adaptation, > motivation, communication, learning, development, etc., where our > explanatory concepts seem to be fatally entangled with our descriptive > ones. A design co-array is a co-listing of circumstances and adaptive > techniques, with all the pairings leading to a common outcome. > > > > I guess I am wondering, Is this way of thinking about telic phenomena a > mathematical way? It seems to me to relate to the idea of mapping. The > motivated animal maps his behavior onto his circumstances and thence, > convergently, onto outcomes. But I am also wondering, aside from making my > deceased big brother proud, is there any benefit to formalizing it. It is > my understanding of mathematics that the benefit of formalization is the > capacity to be led, through the formalization to some unexpected prediction > concerning the phenomenon. It’s hard for me to see what benefits such a > formalization would provide. > > > > To make it as easy for you to think about this problem, I have ocr-ed its > most lucid and concise description among my papers, cleaned it up, and > attached it above. > > > > I am eager for anybody’s thoughts. > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2018 5:24 PM > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > > Well, I'm not a sequential machine although my wife has her doubts. > > > > Thanks for the algebraic geometry suggestions. Jon Zingale and I will try > to master the subject. Others may join us on Saturday mornings if they > wish. > > > > Frank > > ----------------------------------- > > Frank Wimberly > > > > My memoir: > > https://wacsequentisl mww.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > > > My scientific publications: > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 5:16 PM John Kennison <jkenni...@clarku.edu> wrote: > > Hi Frank, > > > > I didn't realize it was supposed to be a joke --it seemed like a relevant > example. I'm not an algebraic geometer but: > > > > . . . there is a historical survey in > https://www.ime.usp.br/~pleite/pub/artigos/abhyankar/abhyankar.pdf > > Historical Ramblings in Algebraic Geometry and Related Algebra > > www.ime.usp.br > > Historical Ramblings in Algebraic Geometry and Related Algebra Author(s): > Shreeram S. Abhyankar Source: The American Mathematical Monthly, Vol. 83, > No. 6 (Jun. - Jul ... > > > > If you read that you can tell if you like Ahbyankar's style. He wrote a > more thorough survey in 295 pages called "Algebraic Geometry for Scientists > and Engineers'' (including computer scientists. > > > > --John > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Frank Wimberly < > wimber...@gmail.com> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2018 5:53:53 PM > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Open Letter, draft #2 > > > > Sorry, John. It was a weak attempt to be humorous. > > > > Also, I mistyped. I meant "algebraic geometry" when I was asking for a > book recommendation. > > > > Frank > > ----------------------------------- > > Frank Wimberly > > > > My memoir: > > https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > > > My scientific publications: > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 12:56 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> > wrote: > > John writes: > > > > “Is there something that animals, or more particularly humans, can do > which we can prove cannot be duplicated by a sequential machine?” > > > > A sequential computer program could simply be a loop that sampled random > numbers and indexed into the address space of the computer program itself > (not its memory). One could make a specialized computer using a FPGA that > even had an instruction to do that random dispatching. To counter the > arguments of Penrose, one could do the same using quantum states. > > > > https://www.springer.com/us/book/9781402078941 > > > > There are all kinds of physical processes that are simulated on classical > supercomputers, of course. > > > > Marcus > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > _______________________________________________ > Friam mailing list > Friam@redfish.com > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
