I agree that we shouldn't have to feign interest in others' interests.
I'm not ready to pretend to like country music, go to church, praise
military adventures that I don't agree with, tell gays they are going
to hell and that god will heal them. At the same time, I don't see how
it is productive to make fun of peoples' faith and cultural tastes,
although I've been plenty guilty of that myself, feeding my own ego.
Liberals can be just as intolerant as conservatives, and we will only
make progress when we start to respect other peoples' views. Sometimes
that just means sitting quietly and not responding.
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com
<mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
Well, I find this article depressing but plausible. Specifically,
Andrés Miguel Rondón writes:
“But it took opposition leaders 10 years to figure out that they
needed to actually go to the slums and the countryside
<https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2015/11/04/selfie/>. Not for a
speech or a rally, but for a game of dominoes or to dance salsa —
to show they were Venezuelans, too, that they weren’t just dour
scolds and could hit a baseball, could tell a joke that landed.
That they could break the tribal divide, come down off the
billboards and show that they were real. This is not populism by
other means. It is the only way of establishing your standing.
It’s deciding not to live in an echo chamber. To press pause on
the siren song of polarization.”
Figuratively, I don’t want to play dominoes, dance salsa, or play
baseball. I have different interests. I shouldn’t have to
pretend. They won’t pretend to me, that’s for sure. This is not
about polarization; this is about not wanting to get pulled into
that attractor. We have different lives. That should be fine.
This is the United States and individualism is kind of a big thing
here.
Now what politicians and opposition leaders do to manage this
problem is a different matter. That is about appearances not reality.
Marcus
*From: *Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on behalf of "Robert J.
Cordingley" <rob...@cirrillian.com <mailto:rob...@cirrillian.com>>
*Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
*Date: *Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 11:34 AM
*To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
*Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
The Washington Post has an interesting essay from a Venezuelan on
what to do and mostly what not to do.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did>
Robert C
On 1/28/17 11:21 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
Ok Steve,
The only reason to accept responsibility is to Take Charge.
I have been able to think of only one concrete thing that I
can do with my limited set of skills: Write Apple and tell
them to stop calling new products “I-this” and “I-that.” When
are they going to release the WE-phone.
You must have something in your tool kit more effective than that!
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Steven A Smith
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:38 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
What can WE hobbits do?
Scratch our hairy knuckles and indulge in second dinnerses?
Fun aside, I DO appreciate your sentiment here and agree that
the Narcissist in Chief is at least partly a (focused)
reflection of our own worst qualities, and *perhaps* if we
tend our own garden even a little, it will help with the
greater picture.
- Candide
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jochen
Fromm
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:39 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com>; Friam
<Friam@redfish.com> <mailto:Friam@redfish.com>
*Cc:* penny thompson <penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>
<mailto:penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>; 'Bruce Simon'
<bjs...@yahoo.com> <mailto:bjs...@yahoo.com>; 'Dix
McComas' <dixmccom...@gmail.com>
<mailto:dixmccom...@gmail.com>; 'Grant Franks'
<grantfra...@earthlink.net> <mailto:grantfra...@earthlink.net>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Yes, agree. Trump’s point of view is “Whatever I can win
with is true.” And if he wins with what we call “a lie”,
it is true for him. Exactly.
If you ask how we can counter and resist him, then I would
say peaceful protests are the right way. The women's march
was impressive, and the rebellion of the social media
managers from the national parks is really refreshing. Who
would have thought that the national parks would strike
back? Like Treebeard who becomes alive.
In JK Rowling's novels it is the little creatures like the
house elves that beat the evil in the end. In Tolkien's
Lord of the Rings it is the Hobbits that beat the evil
enemy. I think in this case people like Ken Bone are the
Hobbits of the 21st century. The modern Hobbits are
adverage midwestern guys who support Mr. T-Rump and his
"party" on Twitter and hope to get a bit rich and famous
along the way.
People like Ken Bone are like Frodo the Hobbit, Mr. T-Rump
is Sauron and Jack Dorsey is the ringwraith. Will Ken Bone
throw the ring into Mt. Doom, i.e. will he stop following
Trump on Twitter and/or quit Twitter completely? If we all
stop following and listening him he loses his power. This
includes the senior Republican politicians who do not
speak up against him because they hope for a job in his
administration.
Cheers,
Jochen
Sent from my Tricorder
-------- Original message --------
From: Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net
<mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net>>
Date: 1/28/17 01:57 (GMT+01:00)
To: Friam <Friam@redfish.com <mailto:Friam@redfish.com>>
Cc: penny thompson <penny.thomp...@earthlink.net
<mailto:penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>>, 'Bruce Simon'
<bjs...@yahoo.com <mailto:bjs...@yahoo.com>>, 'Dix
McComas' <dixmccom...@gmail.com
<mailto:dixmccom...@gmail.com>>, 'Grant Franks'
<grantfra...@earthlink.net
<mailto:grantfra...@earthlink.net>>
Subject: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Hi everybody,
I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we seem to
keep coming back to this topic, even when we are talking
about globalism.
So. Let me just share one thought. I have said a hundred
times that I think the great achievement of the Right in
my life time has been to problematize (Ugh!) the Deweyan
consensus of the 1950’s One of the elements of that
consensus was that there is a truth of most matters and if
we gather inclusively, talk calmly, reason closely, study
carefully, investigate rigorously, we will, together ,
come to it. What was, at the time of my coming of age,
the shared foundation of argument, became over last 50
years, /a position in the argument. /The alternative to
this Deweyan position seems to be something like, “/There
is no truth of the matter; there is only the exercise of
power. He who wins the argument, by whatever means, wins
the truth. Truth is not something that is arrived at; it
is won.”/
So. My sense of trump is that in fact, he is not lying.
On the contrary, he does not share the view of discourse
that makes lying a possibility. From Trump’s point of
view, “Whatever I can win with is true.” Hence, if he
wins with what we call “a lie”, it is true.
I feel we are straying along the edge of some *Nietzschean
*chasm here. Unfortunately I haven’t read any Nietzsche
. A brief rummage in Wikipedia, led me to The Parable of
the Madman
<http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/nietzsche-madman.asp>.
And THAT led me to wonder if the TV Series, Madmen
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men>, about marketing
execs in the 60’s, was written with Nietzsche in mind. In
any case, if there is ever a domain in which the truth is
that which wins, it would be marketing.
So, if we are going to counter Trump, it cannot be by
demonstrating that he lies. It has to be by demonstrating
that liars don’t win.
Heavy lift.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
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