Thanks, Marcus,
The rural co-operative thing interests me. Half the year I live in rural Massachusetts. There the problem is not that there isn’t fiber around. It is that Verizon has sucked the heart out of the market by running stripes of fibre here and there, but not going to the effort to connect anybody who is not 100 feet from the pole. The rest of us have to get our I-net service by dial up or cell tower. The connections to the Cell tower are metered, so that if you fall asleep at your computer and it decides to download an update, you could wake up from your nap with a 150 dollar phone bill. The whole thing is nerve wracking and stupid. But still, I doubt that one could get a rural coop thing going in MA because a significant proportion of each community doesn’t have a problem. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 1:53 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities My personal belief/preference is that withholding adequate internet access is like withholding public transportation, education, health care or nutrition. Now _I_ had to make due with a 300 baud modem as a young person, so in some sense the expectations I’m hearing here are hilarious (_gigabit_ Ethernet, seriously?). But that 300 baud modem was nonetheless transformative for me and so I have relatively strong opinions on the value of bring information to rural users, whether that is BBS, internet , or just a book mobile. I see no reason to distinguish between work and entertainment uses. Would you like it if police pulled you over on the highway (as opposed to the information highway) to see if you were going to a movie instead of to work? It’s not a huge cost to overbuild a bit compared to the infrastructure issues in Flint, Michigan or earthquake preparations in Seaside Oregon, or any of thousand things that are teetering on or past the edge of catastrophe in this country. A conservative might say there is trade off to be made. I would just call them cheapskates. But back in the rural area where I grew up, prior generations realized right away they would have nothing if they didn’t form a telephone co-op. Now they are deploying fiber to the home and many homes have had internet TV for years. Because they wanted to. So my takeaway is: Just decide you want to.. From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Nick Thompson Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:56 PM To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities Hi, Marcus, Wait. Hang on. I was actually trying to present arguments in a colorful way, not being personal. I hope you saw that. I wasn’t trying to characterize you, or anybody else, really. Not even me. I am not my Inner Luddite. At least, I hope not. My fantasy about “interactive pornography” was not directed toward any person, but was an attempt to stimulate the network neutrality discussion at the Municipal level. I was interested in stimulating the list to discuss the question: Are we obligated to provide expanded bandwidth for all activities equally I actually don’t know what I think about that question, which is why I want to hear it discussed. Is there any legitimate argument to be made for the equivalent of “emergency vehicles” on the “information super-highway”? Or HOV lanes. Is there really no way to distinguish between work and entertainment? Any time a City issues a bond or appropriates funds, it constitutes a collective action, right? So then, collective benefit presumably comes into play, if only of the “you scratch my back and I will scratch yours” kind. So then, we get to make arguments about the relative benefits to a community (or the individuals in it) of different potential allocations. That’s all I meant by “moral urgency”, when push comes to shove. I suppose from Ting’s point of view, it’s all irrelevant. The more use the better. Again my apologies for being annoying. You have made several very helpful contributions to this thread, and I would hate to lose you. Thanks, Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 11:39 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities Actually my inner nihilist says, “Who gives a damn about your moral urgency?” No one is obligated to do anything in this situation. The advocates get what they want, or fail to. From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Nick Thompson Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 11:36 AM To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities Marcus, I now realize that my Inner Luddite is actually quite a puritan. He says, “Are any of the activities you describe morally urgent”. I think your Inner Libertarian replies, “Who gives a damn for your Inner Luddite?! It’s not for us to police other’s behavior.” To which my Inner Luddite replies, “Ok. But are we obligated to provide expanded bandwidth for all activities equally?” Like all Puritans, my Inner Luddite has a filthy imagination. Let us imagine a new genre of interactive pornography which requires 1 gig responsivity. Let’s imagine that a marketing survey shows that 60 percent of high band width use will consist of interactive pornography. Is the mayor of Plymouth Massachusetts obligated to facilitate the installation of 1 gig service in her town? N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 10:37 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities There are a variety of technologies, ranging from Ethernet-based frame buffer device drivers (Userful for Linux), to extended RDP protocols (RemoteFX for Windows). Google Chromecast or the NetFlix capabilities integrated into Smart TVs are similar, although they are more oriented toward delivery of compressed video streams where users don’t care so much about artifacts. Latency is more of a problem for interactive use. It doesn’t matter if a video stream for television is delayed by a second, but it is impossible to use such a thing for a desktop computer or most games. Services like Playstation Now (simple protocols integrated into new televisions) have to deal with latency. High performance networking needs to deal with not just bandwidth (download times), but also reducing latency. From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 9:51 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities Huh this zero client thing reminds me of a X11 stunt Skunkworks had. Basically a computer (Fred) could somehow talk to other computers so that what ever you did was just like it was right there on Ruby, John or who evers computer. It rocked! My testing was mostly on the gaming end since LAN parties were a both useful and fun way to test it out and find gremlins. On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com> > wrote: It turns all activities into a 1 Gbit/sec bandwidth. That’s the speed that is needed to stream high resolution (e.g. 1080p) displays and make them feel like they are really local. So, instead of some impoverished stripped-down JavaScript application designed for the web, one can run a real app running on a beefy machine. Further, the app never has to be installed or updated. The host does that for the user. So when companies like Microsoft start offering reduced-price access to applications on Azure over the Internet, areas like San Francisco or Portland or New York will be able to make use of those low-cost & high capability, and we out in the middle of nowhere will not. From: Friam [mailto: <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Nick Thompson Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 2:23 PM To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' < <mailto:friam@redfish.com> friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities Marcus, Is the zero-client setup one that would turn wordprocessing into a one-gig sort of an activity? N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [ <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 2:04 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < <mailto:friam@redfish.com> friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities “Do others have very specific advantages that would flow from having 1-gig service in the City?” Zero client technology typically requires reliable 1 Gbit Ethernet. This is the scenario where all apps are hosted on the cloud and display is thrown to the user that has a super cheap device. This is useful in glove box scenarios where portability is important (but also access to corporate databases), security is paramount, or where theft or damage in the user environment is a risk (e.g. public libraries, issuing equipment to students). Also, zero client setups are useful for reducing maintenance costs as everything is centralized. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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