Re: [FRIAM] A physics question

[Steve Smith]

Nick - I see some obvious mechanisms that would allow for this: Ice Caves are an interesting phenomenon which appear to beat the basic thermodynamics of a situation, some of their mechanisms would appear to allow for what you suggest:     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cave#Temperature_mechanisms A simple answer is "yes"...  if the existing icicle is cold enough, water *can* be frozen onto it even if the ambient air temperature is above 0C...   It also does seem conceivable that evaporation of an outer layer of liquid water running down an icicle might remove enough heat from an inner layer to "grow" the icicle some more.  Our dry (and thin?) air would probably help.   I'm guessing that what you are looking for is a balanced equation between the latent heat of vaporization and the latent heat of  fusion for water.  A quick glance at the enthalpy equations suggest that there is more energy consumed by vaporization than required for fusion (freezing) of water.   The remaining questions include things like rates of evaporation in (semi)dry air and so forth.      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat#Latent_heat_for_condensation_of_water I suppose the point of having icicles form on the sunny side is twofold:  first to provide the source of liquid water (melting snow) and second to make it all the more curiouser if/when the icicles grow? A real (currently practicing) physicist might do something more useful with your question. - Steve Chiefly for the Church Fathers of the Santa Fe Mother Church:   Can one grow an icicle off the sunny side of a building if the air temperature is above freezing?    Nick   Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/   ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

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