I dunno, steve.  You seem right in the groove to me!  Thought full
technologist.   I don't even have the technological thread.   So they'lll
exile me long before they exile you.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 9:28 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How to avoid shootings

N -

Yes, of course... the list is archived and (apparently?) open to the world
and indexed by search engines, so I assume that the audience is the universe
and the persistence is indefinite.

I'm glad you found it of interest... I worry that my rambling anecdotal
introspective missives are little more than eyeroll and <delete> fodder for
many here...

I understand that I *am* somewhat out of the range of the typical (and
appropriate?) range for this forum...

- S
> Thanks, steve.  There s somebody I would like to share this with, not 
> on th list.  Is that OK?  N
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve 
> Smith
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 11:30 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How to avoid shootings
>
> N -
>
> Your point is well taken...
>
> It is out of the culture that murdered and displaced our native 
> population that our gun culture emerged and now thrives.  It is still 
> glorified by many, some trying to live it past it's time and some 
> watching from the sidelines.  You don't have to read McCarthy's Blood 
> Meridian or McMurtry's Comanche Moon to have a hint of how brutal and 
> thoughtless the dispossessed or displaced Confederate (and in some 
> cases
> Union) soldiers were in the last half of the 19th, coming west and 
> trying to recover from that mess.  If we think PTSD was invented in 
> our middle east or even Vietnam wars, imagine the horrors of the Civil 
> War, especially where cousins or even brothers found themselves on 
> opposite sides, crossing bayonets.
>
> I have lived among, and counted as friends, many of the *survivors* of 
> the native genocide, throughout of my life.  It has always been an 
> incredibly delicate topic, the genocide, the displacement, the many
> broken treaties and promises.   None of my friends ever wanted to talk
> much about it, even though they knew I was as sympathetic as anyone 
> not the victim could be.  An overt apology to them felt quite empty and
> hollow, and specious in too many ways.   Being a friend was the most
> (least?) I could do.
>
> I had a Navajo friend in college who was married to a Hopi woman 
> during the worst of the Navajo-Hopi resentments.  They couldn't go 
> home, at least not with their spouses, so they became somewhat 
> unusually available for friendships with us, their white-eyed 
> neighbors.  Our daughters played in the dirt together outside our
adjoining apartments.
> We shared meals.  He was simultaneously studying the hydrology (MS 
> Geology,
> NAU) of the Kayenta basin and working as an activist to get the 
> outrageous coal mining practices  there at least looked at if not 
> stopped.  I was helping find the dirt on their tribal chairman Peter 
> McDonald that eventually brought him down.
>
> One of my good friends in middle school was one of two adopted 
> brothers, also Navajo, living with their adoptive do-gooder white
christian parents.
> The parents tried, they cared, but they were oh so clueless.
> They were "good boys" until the testosterone kicked in, and then they 
> became warriors without a cause.  I remained friends as best I could 
> as they spun out in place, exploring alcohol and it's it's dangers to 
> their metabolisms and resorting to fairly random violence with others to
try
> to wrestle their own daemons.   I lost track after high school.
>
> My first crush was a Zuni girl in my first grade class who was as tall as
I.
> To get the yayas out of us, the teacher made us run around the
> building twice each morning.   To avoid the crowd of other running kids,
> I tried running the opposite way.  I met her at the far corner, she 
> leading the pack and me going full tilt on my own.  We collided 
> cheekbone to cheekbone (this is when I realized we were the same 
> height)...  and I got teased mercilessly by my father that I had 
> gotten my black eye from a girl on the playground.  LIttle did he know 
> that I cherished that bruise and missed her as much as a 7 year old can
when her family moved away that year.
>
> A good friend of mine today is Lakota Sioux and is becoming a 
> successful (or at least surviving) artist in his own right after 40 
> years of careening through wives, children, grandchildren, alcohol, drugs,
> homelessness.   He won't hear white man's apologies, there is just too
> much water under that bridge to pretend to put it back at the headwaters.
>
> And what we couldn't do with smallpox and cholera, with swords, bowie 
> knives and repeating rifles, we did with boarding schools, then 
> alcohol, with white sugar, with white flour unto diabetes and organ/system
failure.
>
> I feel mildly lucky to have lived places where the genocide and/or 
> displacement was not as devastatingly complete as it was in the 
> heartland, the South and much of the East and West coasts.  I live 
> within the boundaries of a Tewa-speaking Pueblo and visited their 
> Christmas sale on Saturday and was surprised, shocked, offended and 
> relieved all at once to see no other white faces.  The vendors were 
> not just San Ildefonso, but from all over pueblo country from Laguna to
> Taos.   I was welcome, even though most of the folks there do not know
> me personally...  I feel lucky to have known and called friend 
> individuals from many indigenous groups from the Dacotahs to northern
> Mexico.   Few, if any, are not *still* touched by the legacy of the
> abuses by my own ancestors, the invaders, the murderers, the displacers.
> And again or still, I don't know how to apologize to them.
>
> I am just now reading an oral history of the father of a childhood friend.
> Now 98, he was the son of early homesteaders from England who were 
> coming in on the trailing edge of the US's suppression, enslavement, 
> and destruction of the Apaches in the area of Western NM
> (near where the fires were last year).   It is clear that they hardly
> knew anything at that time (his youth, during the first half of the 
> 19th
> century) of what had come just before... there was a myopia that came 
> with limited education and transportation and something like
> desperation.   I honestly don't think he knew what had happened except
> for the last of the fierce geurilla battles waged by the few survivors 
> (Victorio, Geronimo, Ju, etc.) raiding and hiding in those mountains.
> He spent his entire life in the back country raising sheep, cattle, etc.
>      His was a hard but innocent life.  Perhaps not unlike those who 
> were displaced from the lands his family occupied.  His son (my 
> friend) came to school in 3rd grade with his brother in 6th, neither
having ever had
> formal schooling.   Their mother had decided to give them a life that
> was more promising than theirs had been.  They still spent summers on 
> the ranch and on the fire watchtower where their mother spent her
> summers.   My friend went on to become the county drug interceptor
> (stealing drug drops from airplanes out of Mexico and selling them in
> Arizona) while his cousin (another good friend) became the county sheriff.
>
> I at least try not to celebrate or romanticize the "consquistadors" or
> the "indian fighters" that were the sharp-edge of that horror.   But the
> remaining abusers, the blunter edge,  I think they were quite a bit 
> more innocent.  And I think *we* are them still.  The best I can tell, 
> better than an apology would be a change of heart.  For us to learn 
> from those mistakes and pull back our colonial/empire which now lives 
> almost entirely in the corporate extractive exploitation of the third
world.
> My Lakota friend has an art project called "Not Afraid to Look" that 
> begins to address this.
>
> Apologies are important for the apologizers... but don't be surprised 
> if they can't be heard until we change our ways... ( said the man 
> filling his tank with gasoline from the middle east, typing on a 
> computer manufactured in China, eating grapes from South America, 
> watching movies laced with violence and exploitation...)
>
> - S
>
>
>> Thanks, Russ.  At least somebody had the grace to apologize.  I don't
> think
>> the word apologize is in our national lexicon.  Can you IMAGINE what 
>> would happen if Obama were to apologize on behalf of the nation for 
>> our
> infection,
>> slaughter, displacement, and confinement of indigenous Americans.
>> [shudder]  N
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Friam [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Russell
> Standish
>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 11:08 PM
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How to avoid shootings
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 10:56:44PM -0700, Nicholas  Thompson wrote:
>>> And you forgot our genocide?  For some reason I imagine that the 
>>> Australian genocide was less vicious.  I hope the Australians on the 
>>> list will weigh in on that.  N
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>> Sadly, our treatment of the Aborigines was pretty appalling, right up 
>> to 1968, when they were finally given the vote and recognised as 
>> citizens of our country. And that included mass genocide, in places 
>> like Tasmania, and kidnapping of children by the state.
>>
>> It looks like our generation has finally made some effort to 
>> apologise,
> and
>> fix up the mess created by previous generations, but there is still a 
>> long way to go before there is true equality between aboriginal and 
>> non-aboriginal people.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>
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