I think that's my job description! TV
On Mar 23, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Tom, > > Thanks for supplying this quote. To my shame, I have never read Rorty. > > "Interesting [field of study] is rarely an examination of the pros and cons > of a thesis. Usually it is, implicitly or explicitly, a contest between an > entrenched vocabulary which has become a nuisance and a half-formed new > vocabulary which vaguely promises great things... " > > What I have been unable to sort out is which category "complexity babble" > belongs to. Is there such a thing as a half-formed new vocabulary that has > become a nuisance? > > Nick > > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, > Clark University ([email protected]) > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe] > > > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Tom Vest <[email protected]> > > To: glen e. p. ropella <[email protected]> > > Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> > > Date: 3/23/2010 8:47:01 AM > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] (advice needed!) > > > > > > On Mar 22, 2010, at 5:06 PM, glen e. p. ropella wrote: > > > > > Thus spake Nicholas Thompson circa 10-03-22 04:58 PM: > > >> Yes. I am sorry. That was my fault. There was a bit of a slipup > > >> between > > >> the "provost" and the professor. > > > > > > No worries! It looks like a great book and I expect I'll enjoy it when > > > I pop it off the queue. > > > > > >> Byers main point is that it is AMBIGUITY that makes maths great! But > > >> its a > > >> subtle argument because what he is really saying is ironic: as > > >> mathematicians strive to reduce amibiguity they inevitably generate more, > > >> and thus, against their feverish and futile resistance, does math > > >> progress. > > > > > > Very interesting. If there's one conviction I'm actually guilty of, > > > it's believing that irony (or, more accurately, paradox) is the ultimate > > > teacher. And ambiguity is closely coupled with paradox. (Warning: the > > > broken record begins again.) That's why I'm so fond of "Vicious > > > Circles" by Barwise and Moss. It's the closest body of math I've found > > > that tries to explain how cycles impact the definiteness of math. > > > > > > But it's wrapped in other stories, too. I remember once looking up > > > "impredicative definition" in the index of some overly large math > > > reference book in some library somewhere. (I lose track sometimes. ;-) > > > It told me to look at a particular page. That page made a vague > > > reference to the term "vicious circle". So, I looked up "vicious > > > circle". It took me to another particular page, which made a vague > > > reference to "impredicative definitions". If it hadn't been such a > > > large book, it would have been funny. Instead, I learned a valuable > > > lesson. > > > > > > Interesting mix of interests! Glen I wonder if you've ranged even further > > afield, and come across a book by Richard Rorty called Contingency, > > Solidarity, and Irony (1989) -- or maybe Rorty's first, fame-making book, > > Philosophy and the Mirror of Nature (1979)? Rorty was a modern American > > School pragmatist (a tradition which he broadly defined to include William > > James, Charles Peirce, John Dewey, as well as WVO Quine and Donald > > Davidson), and most of his life's work focused on debunking (or if that was > > not possible, discrediting) all sorts of perceived impediments to > > inter-subjective communication and coordination -- prerequisites for the > > social/political goals (e.g., understanding, cooperation) that he was more > > open about in his final years. One nice quote from Contingency about his > > own disciplinary labors, which could easily be applied to the current > > context: > > > > "Interesting [field of study] is rarely an examination of the pros and > > cons of a thesis. Usually it is, implicitly or explicitly, a contest > > between an entrenched vocabulary which has become a nuisance and a > > half-formed new vocabulary which vaguely promises great things... This sort > > of [discipline-specific research] does not work piece by piece, analyzing > > concept after concept, or testing thesis after thesis. Rather it works > > holistically and pragmatically." (p. 9) > > > > While this observation seems a bit exaggerated to me (i.e., narrow, > > stepwise analysis often accompanies the broader contest between rival > > paradigms), this actually sounds quite a bit like the work I'm > > participating in this week, at the Internet Engineering Task Force meeting > > in Los Angeles (esp. the Routing Research Group, which is trying to develop > > a consensus recommendation for a new Internet architecture to be developed > > over the next couple of years). > > > > Sadly, it also reminds me of an old grad school benefactor (whom you may > > actually remember Glen -- he sponsored my mid-1990s participation in the > > Swarm conferences where we met once or twice, and later spent a summer > > there as a visiting fellow -- the results of which were later memorialized > > in one of Simon Fraser's chatterbots). Sometimes those "vague promises of > > great things" on the other side of the next disciplinary fence can be so > > compelling that the lure of serial fence-hopping displaces the much more > > challenging but enduring work of fence removal and field integration. I > > learned may valuable (and ironic) lessons from that particular > > association... > > > > Regards all, > > > > TV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
