Thanks, Nick, You raise interesting and difficult points: what is a group (when it is not predefined in the problem), what are its properties, etc. I took my first pass through your paper too quickly to understand your solution.
But I'm not facing that problem. In a computational GA environment, I don't have to answer the question of what a group is. It is (trivially) a member of my population. All I'm asking is whether there are computational systems that let me work with such a computational framework and whether there are any papers about such a computational framework. Since I'm not getting any answers to my actual questions, I'm supposing that the answer is that there aren't any such systems. On the other hand, one might argue that what I'm really asking for is a Pitt style learning classifier system. Within that framework, one evolves collections of rules, which is basically what I'm asking for except that instead of thinking of each element of each group as necessarily a rule it is an individual more generally conceived. -- Russ Abbott ______________________________________ Professor, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles cell: 310-621-3805 blog: http://russabbott.blogspot.com/ vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ ______________________________________ On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Nicholas Thompson < [email protected]> wrote: > russ, > > I little sober reflection (no pun intended) will reveal that David Sloan > Wilson's "trait group selection" is actually a mechanism for > quantitative inheritance of group traits. See > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/id49.html<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/id49.html> > > > where you can download the pdf by clicking on the abstract > > or download the pdf directly from > > > http://www.clarku.edu/faculty/nthompson/1-websitestuff/Texts/2000-2005/Shifting_the_natural_selection_metaphor_to_the_group_level.pdf > > The full treatment of this mechanism is in DSW's Natural Selection of > Populations and Communities (?) 1979, i think. > > Enjoy, > > N > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, > Clark University ([email protected]) > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> > http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe] > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Russ Abbott <[email protected]> > *To: *ERIC P. CHARLES <[email protected]> > *Cc: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group<[email protected]> > *Sent:* 3/9/2010 9:12:04 PM > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Genetic algorithm for groups > > Thanks, Eric. Very interesting message. But it didn't address the questions > I asked. > > Does anyone know of any work on a genetic algorithm system that supports > group selection -- or of papers in that specific area. > > Thanks. > > > -- Russ Abbott > ______________________________________ > > Professor, Computer Science > California State University, Los Angeles > > cell: 310-621-3805 > blog: http://russabbott.blogspot.com/ > vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ > ______________________________________ > > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:16 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Russ, et. al, >> I should send an email focusing on group selection, but instead I will >> point out, on a very related note, that there was a pretty nice altruism >> article published by some of the people on the list not too long ago ;- ) >> http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/9/2/4.html -- That article demonstrates >> that a strategy that always co-operates, but changes partners if faced with >> a defector, out performs strategies that only co-operate under certain >> circumstances (e.g., the much revered tit-for-tat). At least one of the >> authors knows Wilson pretty darn well, and another got to present the paper >> in a symposium with Wilson and got pretty good compliments. >> >> I had a fantasy about creating a genetic algorithms version of the same >> program, but got side tracked on other projects. The idea was that we would >> start with a population of all non-co-operators non-leavers. Each would have >> a "chromosome" where there was a low probability it would "mutate", gaining >> or losing whichever ability the gene represented. Presumably it would take >> many, many generations for co-operation to emerge as a contender in the >> population. Given a limited number of generations, most ! populations would >> be unlikely to evolve altruism (i.e., the occasional mutation would be >> quickly eliminated). However, the interesting study would be too look back >> at those populations in which altruism DID evolved, and determine the order >> of events. Our hypothesis, based on the prior simulation (and the really >> good logic behind it) would be that leaving evolves first, then >> co-operation. At least, that would be the typical pattern. >> >> It would be a really fun study, and I would be happy to help put it >> together. It would be done already except for two factors 1) a dispersion of >> the interested parties and 2) new Netlogo versions required tweaking the >> original program more than the remaining brain-power allowed. The last >> version was pretty heavily documented (admittedly by people who are not >> skilled at the art), so it shouldn't take a skilled programer too long to >> fix it up. >> >> Anyway, already a longer email than intended, >> >> Eric >> >> P.S. Nick knows the group! selection stuff backwards and forwards. I can >> do pretty good ! schpeel too, and you should scold me for not having >> answered your question more exactly. The reason this is related is because >> group selection is only an interesting conversation (i.e., only a >> controversial conversation) if you are trying to use it to explain the >> evolution of altruism. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 08:52 PM, *Russ Abbott <[email protected]>*wrote: >> >> David Sloan Wilson has been an advocate of group >> selection<http://www.nbb.cornell.edu/wkoenig/wicker/NB4340/Wilson&Wilson2008.pdf>in >> evolution for quite a while. (And I think he's right.) What I'd like to >> know is whether anyone knows of any work on group selection in a >> (computational) genetic algo! rithm context. >> >> >> Suppose I wanted to evolve a fleet of cars for a car rental agency. One >> approach would be a genetic algorithm in which the population elements were >> fleets, each of which is a collection of cars. Crossover would generate >> children fleets some of whose cars were copied from each parent. >> >> In addition, I want to assume that the car properties themselves are >> evolvable. So one could, for example, crossover two cars to produce >> offspring cars with properties from the two parents. >> >> This has also been called multi-level selection because evolution takes >> place at multiple levels at once: in this case at the fleet level and at the >> car level simultaneously >> >> Is anyone aware of a framework that supports this sort of process? Or is >> anyone aware of any papers that describe results in this area? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- Russ >> >> >> >> >> -- Russ Abbott >> ______________________________________ >> >> Professor, Computer Science >> California State University, Los Angeles >> >> cell: 310-621-3805 >> blog: http://russabbott.blogspot.com/ >> vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ >> ______________________________________ >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> Eric Charles >> >> Professional Student and >> Assistant Professor of Psychology >> Penn State University >> Altoona, PA 16601 >> >> >> > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
