Owen,

I agree that your suggestions are perfectly reasonable.  Now, just as an
academic exercise ( ;-] ), how about if you try presenting your views to a
few of Sarah Palin's hundreds of thousands of avid Tea Partiers.  Pick a
random sample.  Be prepared to dodge flecks of flying spittle.  And to hear
about Death Squads.

--Doug

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Owen Densmore <[email protected]> wrote:

> I don't buy the health care debate being quite so one sided.  Certainly
> there is self interest in the insurance world, but there is equal opposing
> interest.
>
> Businesses both large and small realize health care in other countries is
> subsidizing their competition.  Thus Detroit was first in line to lobby for
> health care.
>
> Doctors too are lobbying against the absurd malpractice litigation which
> has become a barrier to practice.
>
> There are a few steps that could be made that would get little resistance
> from the corporate devils you paint.  For example, why not require people to
> pay for a reasonable insurance plan?  We are required to do so for car
> insurance.  Our current practice drives folks to use the emergency room for
> their doctor at a huge and silly additional cost.
>
> So: 1) Require universal health care insurance.  But 2) Remove
> preconditions.  See the yin/yang?  Insurance companies have already said
> that pair would work for them, as have the AMA/doctors.  And yes, 3)
> Subsidize those who cannot afford the base rate.  And 4) limit malpractice
> litigation.  It is claimed that just these 4 steps would reduce the cost of
> current health care and increase businesses competitiveness significantly.
>  And properly put in place the right market counter forces to the evil
> corporations.
>
> We ourselves need to change.  How many of us spend as much on medical care
> as we do our cars?  In my calculations, cars and their care still cost more.
>  Compare auto leasing costs for two cars for the standard family and
> insurance for same and they're surprisingly close.  Add upkeep of the car
> and they are way ahead.
>
>     -- Owen
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2010, at 9:04 AM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
>
> Pamela,
>
> I think the healthcare issue goes way beyond just the usual corporate
> profit protection, pay for play political game.  Look at how polarized the
> nation has become over just this issue alone.  Look at how many people *
> don't* believe that the healthcare issue is really about healthcare
> insurance industry profit protection.
>
> We truly are a nation of idiots.  We deserve Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin,
> and Pat Robertson.
>
> Model that, if you like.  The agents in the individual based simulation
> won't need much sophistication.
>
> --Doug
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 8:00 AM, Pamela McCorduck <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> When Kennedy envisioned going to the moon, no lobby existed to fight
>> ferociously for the sole right to take the profits from going to the moon,
>> and the sole right to decide who gets to go.
>>
>> If you read the not-very-deep subtext in this fight, you will see that
>> it's not about giving better healthcare to Americans (which we desperately
>> need) but about protecting the enormous profits of the healthcare insurance
>> industry. It's dressed up in "right to choose," and "privacy between doctor
>> and patient," and "keep the government out of medical care," but it's really
>> about profit protection. From several different and reliable sources (one of
>> them a congressional candidate) I have heard that since early last summer,
>> the insurance and pharmaceuticals industries have been spending over $1
>> million per day on lobbying. It continues. You can do the arithmetic.
>>
>> The media regularly reports on how much better, cheaper, and more
>> effective medical plans are all around the developed world. It doesn't
>> penetrate $1 million-plus per day.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
>>
>>  Where does all this whining about health care
>>> come from? Everyone in Germany has a health
>>> insurance, it is obligatory. There is general
>>> agreement here that the European (and esp.
>>> the German) health care system is better
>>> and more social than the one in the US.
>>> The USA obviously needs a better health care
>>> system. Where is the American optimism and
>>> the "i believe we can do it" spirit? I've heard
>>> that optimism and positive thinking is a typical
>>> American attitude.
>>>
>>> America is lacking a vision, something like
>>> Kennedy's vision to bring a man to the moon
>>> and back. Military and NASA won't do it
>>> this time. A vision or a common dream which
>>> would foster technological innovation. Schmidt
>>> mentioned "renewable energy" and green
>>> technology. What about a clean L.A. with
>>> fresh air? A large scale scientific initiative
>>> to create the first AI would be another one.
>>> America would have the resources to do it, it
>>> has the companies with the largest data centers.
>>> It should be proud of Google, Microsoft,
>>> Amazon, and Apple. It is difficult to understand
>>> why it disputes about health care so long.
>>>
>>> -J.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Critchlow
>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Sources of Innovation
>>>
>>> [...] We're too busy defending ourselves from hedge fund vampires and
>>> health care ghouls to worry about growth.  Say what you will about the
>>> undead, they steal their profits fair and square and invest them in the rule
>>> of law.
>>>
>>>
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Reply via email to