I am up for this one, Merle-
Tory
On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:
But we may have to have a useful conversation about emergence in
order to talk about soul, consciousness, or spirit.
Merle
Nicholas Thompson wrote:
Try this: a property of an entity is emergent when it depends on
the arrangment or the order of presentation of the parts of the
entity. (It's /properties/ that are emergent, not /entities/ ...
some properties of a pile of sand are emergent, some aggregate.)
Here, I believe, I am channeling Wimsatt. The beauty of reading a
collection such as Bedau and The Other Guy is that you experience
the whip-lash of moving from point of view to point of view. Good
exercise for the neck. By the way, Russ (was it?) was
a ...leetle... unfair to Bedau. I dont think Bedau thinks it's a
mystery; i think he thinks others have thought it a mystery. But
it's been a few months since I read it. Implementation: Consider
the expression, "there is more than one way to skin a cat".
Equivalent to: "there are several programs you can use to implement
a cat skinning." Consciousness: the big source of confusion in
emergence discussions is the attempt to attach emergence to such
perennial mysteries as consciousness. (Actually, I dont think
consciousness is a mystery, but let that go.) The strength of a
triangle is an emergent property of the arrangment of its legs and
their attachments. There are lots of ways bang together boards
and still have a weak construction, which I learned when I put
together a grape arbor with no diagonal members. Worked fine until
the grapes grew on it. Emergent properties are everywhere in the
simplest of constructions. We dont need to talk about soul, or
consciouness, or spirit to have a useful conversation about
emergence.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University ([email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>)
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Victoria Hughes <mailto:[email protected]>
*To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* 9/6/2009 10:32:59 AM
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] emergence
Consciousness / self-awareness?
Is this thus acceptable as an emergent phenomenon?
If so, how does this permit, or not, the definition of 'the self'
as a unique identity?
Emergence is what happens when components of the "emergent
entity" act in such a way as to bring about the existence and
persistence of that entity.
When "boids" follow their local flying rules, they create
(implement) a flock. It's not mysterious. We know how it works.
That's all emergence is: coordinated or consistent actions among
a number of elements that result in the formation and persistence
of some aggregate entity or phenomenon.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
