Could we think of the rules and the effects they produce as some sort of
relaxation process? If so, toward what end?

-- Russ



On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:37 PM, Russ Abbott <[email protected]> wrote:

> One of my pet peeves about most agent-based models is that they ignore
> energy. The boids model does too. But what happens if we include energy
> considerations?
>
> We could assume that the boids move in a frictionless medium and that they
> never touch each other. So the only energy issue is the energy expended in
> following the rules. (Here's Craig Reynolds' 
> page<http://www.red3d.com/cwr/boids/>describing his original boids work, 
> which describes the rules.)  It's
> easiest to assume that each boid has access to an unlimited supply of energy
> which it uses to accelerate itself according to the rules.
>
> Obviously it's unrealistic to assume that any agent has access to an
> unlimited supply of energy. But most agent-based models do! Being a
> far-from-equilibrium system, energy enters the model through the boids. It
> dissipates (without warming the environment) as the boids use energy to
> accelerate themselves. Since there are no internal energy transfers, the
> energy issues should be fairly easy.
>
> Given the boid rules and the availability of unlimited energy, can anything
> be said about how an arbitrary boid collection will evolve? Will it evolve,
> for example, to a state that requires the minimum total energy expenditure?
>
> If that's the case, can something similar be said about other emergent
> entities and phenomena?
>
> This is a somewhat different question than is normally asked about
> far-from-equilibrium systems. More frequently one assumes that energy is 
> *pumped
> into the system at a constant rate*. One then asks what happens. One gets 
> Bénard
> cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9nard_cells> and similar
> phenomema. But here energy is being *pulled into the system **as needed*.
> It's pull rather than push!
>
> I sincerely hope that someone who can work with the physics of this takes
> it up. If so, I'll do whatever I can to help.
>
> -- Russ
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Russ Abbott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It sounds great if you have the time to do the experiments. :)
>>
>> It's an interesting observation that two boids in a torus will eventually
>> flock. Suppose that they started off moving both orthogonally and out of
>> phase. There is no reason for that to change since they are never in each
>> other's neighborhood.
>>
>> But if you add some random drift effects, then presumably they will
>> eventually begin to affect each other and over time move closer and closer
>> together until they become a flock.
>>
>> By the way, I would define a flock as a collection of boids that form a
>> persistently fully connected network where the boids are the nodes, the
>> links are between boids that are in each other's neighborhoods, and
>> persistently means that the entire collection is always fully connected.
>>
>> Given that definition, given a flock will it eventually settle into a
>> fixed network, i.e., with no link changes?  It's conceivable that a flock
>> may remain a flock even though there are continuing internal link changes.
>> So the question is will every flock eventually find a fixed network
>> configuration.  Since by my definition of a flock, the entire collection
>> will always be fully connected, then it would seem that internal forces will
>> pull it into a fixed (minimal energy) state.
>>
>> Someone must have proved some results along those lines already.
>>
>> -- Russ
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Ted Carmichael <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Russ.  Thanks for the post.  It's always interesting to think about
>>> these things.
>>> Offhand, I think the most relevant factors would be the number of
>>> interactions (how often one boid affects another) and the strength of those
>>> interactions (to what degree one boid affects another, and in what ways).
>>>
>>> In a torus, I believe two boids will always - eventually - flock,
>>> regardless of how seldom or weak the interactions are.  (Of course, this
>>> assumes that the interactions will occur at some point and that they are
>>> formulated to induce flocking ... probably it would be possible that their
>>> path/speed was such that they reach a point where they stop interacting,
>>> even in a torus.)
>>>
>>> It would also depend on how you define a 'flock,' I suppose.  Probably
>>> based somehow on the rules for moving closer or farther apart.
>>>
>>> I think this way would simplify things.  I'd guess the boids would keep
>>> getting closer together until the number of "move apart" interactions
>>> approximately equals the number of "move closer" interactions.  This would
>>> be the equilibrium point - assuming both types of interactions are equal in
>>> their degree of effect).  Probably the rate of movement towards a flock
>>> would change over time as the % of interactions gets closer to the
>>> equilibrium point.  I reckon the speed of change in these percentages would
>>> decrease as you approach the equilibrium point.
>>>
>>> Anyway, it should be easy to test ... if all that is correct, you just
>>> have to count the interactions of each type over time, and see when (if)
>>> they begin to fluctuate around some equilibrium point.
>>>
>>> How does that sound?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Ted
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Russ Abbott <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> In a recent discussion about emergence I wrote the following (somewhat
>>>> edited).
>>>>
>>>> Emergence is what happens when components of the emergent entity act in
>>>> such a way as to bring about the existence and persistence of that entity.
>>>> For example, when "boids" follow their local flying rules, they create (
>>>> *implement*) a flock. It's not mysterious. We know how it works.
>>>>
>>>> That's all emergence is: coordinated or consistent actions among a
>>>> number of elements that result in the formation and persistence of some
>>>> aggregate entity or phenomenon. The "coordination" doesn't have to be
>>>> top-down. In flocking, for example, there is local (or networked)
>>>> coordination. The flying rules for on each boid depend on that boid seeing
>>>> neighboring boids. One can even say that there is some overall 
>>>> coordination:
>>>> all the boids follow the same rules. **
>>>>
>>>> It's worth pointing out that in biological and social emergent entities,
>>>> the components may come and go while the entity persists. What emerges is a
>>>> pattern of activities, not a physical thing. That's one of the reasons
>>>> people get confused. (And that's why subvenience is not particularly useful
>>>> in these cases.)
>>>>
>>>> But if you just think about emergence as a persistent pattern of
>>>> activities, that pretty much takes care of it. It's the fact that the
>>>> pattern persists that matters, not the elements that are acting to produce
>>>> the pattern.
>>>>
>>>> One of the more interesting issues in complex systems is the formation
>>>> of entities --. that "boid attraction" creates flocks is a simple example.
>>>>
>>>> With that in mind, it might be interesting to do some experiments. For
>>>> example, How dense does a collection of boids have to be for a flock to
>>>> form?  Or more to the point, if the boids are confined to a limited, e.g.,
>>>> toroidal, space, how does their initial density determine the rate at which
>>>> the flock forms? What about the other parameters such as the distance each
>>>> individual boid can see (that is, which boids become neighbors) and the
>>>> velocity at which the boids are moving compared to the "attraction" they
>>>> have on each other? This is like gravity and asking whether two passing
>>>> bodies will form an orbiting system or simply affect each other's 
>>>> velocities
>>>> as they pass and separate.
>>>>
>>>> What if the environment included obstacles that the boids had to avoid.
>>>> Some of those obstacles could presumably break up a flock. So how do flock
>>>> formation and flock disintegration interact? There might be other
>>>> disintegration forces such as boids moving a bit more randomly.
>>>>
>>>> How do these results relate to similar results in networks such as
>>>> network formation and connectivity, etc.?
>>>>
>>>> Do any "self-organized criticality" effects appear?
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know whether experiments of this sort have been done, and if
>>>> so, what the results were?
>>>>
>>>> Having written this down, these feel like questions that should have
>>>> been asked a decade ago. But perhaps there might still be something there.
>>>> Entity formation is an open and important issue. Perhaps experiments of 
>>>> this
>>>> sort might shed some light on it
>>>>
>>>> -- Russ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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