The question was why do many of us have the
belief that they can move their body in a certain
direction if they want to do it voluntarily or
consciously? The belief must be based on a perception
of a process or interaction. If downward causation
is like self-consciousness an illusion, then what
kind of stimuli or causal chain preceeds a conscious
action?
I think the answer is maybe a complex interaction
of several causal chains and circuits:
* There is causal chain from the outer world
to the brain and back (including the internal
stimuli-response or perception-action loop)
* There is a causal chain inside the body
from the primary sensoric and motoric regions
of the brain to the corresponding body parts
* There is a causal chain inside the mind from
the high-level level goals and abstract
intentions to the low-level actions and
concrete behavior patterns
Now a mental thought occurred, a physical activity
of the body happened, and afterwards we witness
it. Has the mental thought triggered the physical
action? The causal chain which preceeds a conscious
action goes roughly like this
- The mind formulates a intention and selects a goal,
according to the current beliefs and desires
(for example "i want to reach a certain region")
- The body is in a certain state and environment
- The mind perceives the current situation
- The mind triggers a certain action suitable for the
the current situation and the current goal
- The body is in a new state
Here conscious action is possible through modulation
of the causal chain from the outer world to the brain
and back, which is described usually as a perceive
-reason-action or belief-desire-intention loop.
The illusion of downcard causation seems to arise
through a fundamental attribution error and
an interaction of several causal chains.
There is also book named "The Self and Its Brain:
An Argument for Interactionism" by Karl Popper and
John C. Eccles which discusses a similar topic.
-J.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The ghost in the machine (was 'quick question')
Jochen,
What follows is a behaviorist snit, and I apologize in advance for it.
Why does the defence of consciousness always come in this form:
"Yet although we agree there is no mysterious downward causation,
we can without doubt consciously influence the activities and movements
of our body"
It is NOT without doubt. I doubt it. So there is at LEAST ONE doubt. I
doubt that I am conscious and that my consciousness affects my acts.
Surely after 5 hundred years there is SOMETHING to be said beyond Decartes
meditations.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University ([email protected])
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
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