P.S. In model, though, there are no gifts, only exchanges. And exchanges are
made when one agent has something another agent needs. So I don't think that
model applies, at least not in its simple form.

-- Russ Abbott
_____________________________________________
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
o Check out my blog at http://bluecatblog.wordpress.com/


On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Russ Abbott <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'll  have to look at the paper. But I'm surprised at the result. It seems
> counter intuitive. If an agent has nothing, he can't give anything away. But
> he has as good a chance to receive a gift as anyone else. So agents will
> tend not to go below a basic minimal level. Agents with lots of wealth are
> always giving it away. Yet they don't have a better change of getting any
> new wealth than any other agent. So why should their wealth grow? It would
> seem that wealthy agents would get wealthier only if wealth increases the
> probability of getting a gift. But the model didn't seem to suggest that.
>
> I guess what might happen is that if wealth becomes concentrated, fewer
> transactions (gifts) occur at each time step -- since only those agents with
> any resources give gits.  I.e., if lots of agents have nothing to give,
> fewer gifts occur at any time step, and each agent has a smaller probability
> of receiving anything. So if the distribution of wealth is such that the
> expected value of an agent's wealth stash decreases at every time step (as
> long as he has anything) then agent wealth stashes will tend toward zero.
> But since the money doesn't disappear, it will accumulate in a few agents.
>
> So I guess the population will tend to a distribution in which the
> percentage of agents with more than 0 units of wealth becomes constant at
> the level of the probability that any agent will receive a gift. (Or
> something like that.) That is, if every agent has one unit to give away, the
> expected value of the number of agents who will have a unit after the
> exchange is less than the total number of agents since some agents may
> receive two gifts. If only one agent has something to give away (plus
> something in reserve), the expected number of agents who will have something
> after the exchange will be two since the receiving agent and the gifting
> agent will each have something. So there must be a  point at which the
> number of agents with some wealth will be stay more or less constant. I'm
> afraid I don't know how a Boltzmann distribution comes about. But I guess
> it's something like that.
>
> -- Russ
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Stephen Guerin <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Russ writes:
>>
>>>  there are N agents; N resources are needed for survival. So if the
>>> aggregate production is evenly distributed everyone has a subsistence
>>> living.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think this is necessarily true.
>>
>> Your mentioning a gift economy is further a reason to look at a model as
>> simple as the Tom Carter/Victor Yakovenko model I mentioned where agents are
>> giving a dollar to another random agent (ie gifting). This model, with
>> minimal assumptions, generates non-equitable distribution of wealth where
>> very few agents end up holding most of the wealth (Boltzmann distribution)
>> even though the average wealth in the model is unchanged at $50/agent.
>>
>> The important constraint in the model is that agents can only have
>> positive amounts of cash/goods -- they can't gift a dollar they don't have.
>>
>> Just as energy distributes itself as a boltzmann distribution as particles
>> can not have less than zero energy after a collision (transaction).
>> Basically we have diffusion against a wall in both models. Of course we can
>> introduce debt and progressive taxes to the economic model to mess with the
>> dynamics, but I think it's important to recognize the non-equity is there
>> from the beginning with very minimal assumptions. Note that the wealthy
>> agents do turnover in this model so the definition of what is equitable is
>> important.
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Russ Abbott wrote:
>>
>>  Thanks for all the responses.  What prompted my question was thinking
>>> about the "end state" of the current financial crisis.  The question is:
>>> what does a successful stable economy look like? Only secondarily was I
>>> asking about markets, wealth distribution across society, etc., which is
>>> what many of the existing models focus on.
>>>
>>> In attempting to describe the foundations of a stable economy I was
>>> making the following assumptions.
>>>        • We live off the gift of free energy -- the sun. So in some sense
>>> a stable economy requires little more than harvesting that energy.
>>>        • As human beings we have the innate (i.e., also free) ability to
>>> transform that energy into other forms that we need. For example, most of us
>>> on this list are capable of writing code. I'm taking skills like that as
>>> more free gifts from nature. Yes, it requires, education, study, practice,
>>> etc., but ultimately it grows out of our being alive, a free gift.
>>>        • In talking about "free gifts" from nature, I'm not trying to be
>>> spiritual, new age-y, etc. It just seems to me to be the way the world
>>> works. So I'm willing to build it into the model.
>>>        • But, even though we live off these free gifts, we all need
>>> energy to survive. If you look at my "Reductionist blind spot" paper, you
>>> see that we are what I call dynamic entities. Dynamic entities need to
>>> import externally supplied energy to persist -- in our case food, at least.
>>> So even though we find ourselves in a world in which there is externally
>>> supplied energy available to be imported (from the sun and its stored
>>> versions), we are each still required to do something to import it for
>>> ourselves. That is, we must each work for a living.
>>>        • Presumably a standard economic model says that we live at a
>>> subsistence level if the amount of work we do matches our needs. If I spend
>>> all my working hours doing nothing more than earning what I need to survive,
>>> that's subsistence.
>>>        • I want to allow specialization so I suggested that each agent
>>> specializes in producing some resource but that the aggregate amount
>>> produced exactly satisfies the needs of the producers. That is, each agent
>>> produces N units of his specialty resource; there are N agents; N resources
>>> are needed for survival. So if the aggregate production is evenly
>>> distributed everyone has a subsistence living.
>>>        • A society/economy grows "richer" when it can produce enough
>>> resources for itself without requiring everyone to work on producing those
>>> resources. In that case, the available excess labor can produce
>>> discretionary items, like art, pop music, software, soft drinks, philosophy,
>>> etc.
>>>        • As technology advances a smaller and smaller percentage of the
>>> population is needed to produce the necessities. The rest can spend their
>>> time producing discretionary items.
>>>        • So at this point we are all well fed, and we are all willing to
>>> spend our extra money supporting our local NPR stations.
>>>        • But what happens when there is shock to the economy and people
>>> find that they have less "wealth" than they thought they had? Presumably
>>> they will spend less on discretionary items, and the people who create those
>>> items will be out of work. Where do we go from there?
>>> So I am looking for a model to explore these kinds of issues.
>>>
>>> I must say that I'm surprised at the number of things I had to write down
>>> to explain what I am after. I thought it would be simpler. And I want
>>> something as simple as possible.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts/suggestions?
>>>
>>> -- Russ
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Victoria Hughes <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>> > Attention and action = the price to consume.
>>>
>>> is it possible to have an idea / new information and not in some way,
>>> internally or externally, react to it?
>>> Memes spread. Humans by design infect each other on all levels.
>>> The Complex seems like a great example: by definition intends to do this.
>>> Idea / attention / action-reaction / experience / new idea.
>>> And so forth.
>>> Am enjoying the bouncing of ideas and information in this particular
>>> string...
>>> Tory
>>>
>>> On Apr 12, 2009, at 7:04 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
>>>
>>>  The central property which emerges in markets is
>>>> the price. The central law which rules markets is
>>>> the law of supply and demand. A basic agent-based
>>>> model for markets should explain how both, the
>>>> price and the law of supply and demand, emerge
>>>> in competitive markets. It should be simple to
>>>> extend such a model to explain bubbles and crashes.
>>>> As far as I know, there is no basic model of
>>>> markets in general, there are only agent based models
>>>> of specific markets, for example stock markets,
>>>> financial markets and electricity markets. Perhaps
>>>> the law of supply and demand is too simple to justify
>>>> such a model?
>>>>
>>>> Epstein and Axtell's Sugarscape is a model where
>>>> agents begin to accumulate "wealth" in some form,
>>>> but it is more about evolution of societies and less
>>>> about market mechanisms and economies.
>>>>
>>>> It would be interesting to apply a basic agent-based
>>>> market model to the society of mind. If we consider the
>>>> crowd within and the battle of ideas which is going on
>>>> inside our minds, can we create an agent-based model
>>>> to explain the 'market of information' ? We have a
>>>> demand for new or highly emotional stuff, are constantly
>>>> supplied with information from the outside, and the price
>>>> we have to pay to consume it is attention.
>>>>
>>>> -J.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Abbott
>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:00 AM
>>>> Subject: [FRIAM] Agent-based market models
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know of good examples of generic agent-based market
>>>> economies? I'm thinking of something as simple as this.
>>>>
>>>> A population consists of agents each of which has certain continuing
>>>> needs (such as food, clothing, shelter, Internet access, etc.) to survive.
>>>> As a starting point, let's assume that each agent needs one unit of each of
>>>> N resources every time period.  Let's also assume that each agent is
>>>> specialized and is capable of creating enough of one of the needed 
>>>> resources
>>>> to satisfy the needs of N agents. (The fact that I used the same N in both
>>>> places was intentional.) To keep it simple let's assume that these acts of
>>>> creation occur from scratch, i.e., that the creator doesn't need raw
>>>> materials, that all that's necessary for an agent to create a needed
>>>> resource is that the agent be alive. The agents presumably develop a barter
>>>> economy, trading the resources they create for the resources they need to
>>>> stay alive. Perhaps markets develop, and perhaps money develops. At this
>>>> point the economy should be fairly stable. Each agent creates enough stuff
>>>> so that s/he can trade it for what s/he needs to stay live.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps some of the agents learn how to be more efficient in creating
>>>> their resource and begin to accumulate "wealth" in some form.  Perhaps the
>>>> agents have discretionary desires, which they fill if they have enough
>>>> resources left over after meeting their basic needs. Perhaps there are
>>>> communal services that are paid for by taxes or memberships.  This could
>>>> become increasingly elaborate.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that models of this sort must have been developed --
>>>> perhaps many times. Does anyone know of any references to this sort of 
>>>> work?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> -- Russ Abbott
>>>> _____________________________________________
>>>> Professor, Computer Science
>>>> California State University, Los Angeles
>>>> o Check out my blog at http://bluecatblog.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ============================================================
>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>
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