-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Nicholas Thompson on 11/12/2007 08:10 PM: > Darn it! I cant get anybody to tangle with the fundamental thing I am > saying here. Anytime we embody something that is true of the aggregate of > [...] > Like most people, I would prefer to be stoned to death than be ignored.
You just don't have enough patience! I intended to reply. But, I had my hands full today. I've been trying to point out this fallacy on a political mailing list over the past month or so. My point has been that most people seem to bitch about bodies like Congress or any other clique like Republicans by committing this fallacy. Basically, they ascribe the attributes of individuals to collectives. Now, that may not seem like the same fallacy; but it is. And the first thing you need to do to gain traction on the problem is to at least begin delineating all the ways in which collectives are different and the same as their constituents. One of those differences is complexity. Cause is complex. Yes, you're right that the statement hammer causes embedded nail relies on the fallacy of applying a generic tendency (lots of hammers tend to result in lots of embedded nails) to a particular. However, there's a _more_ important fallacy in the attribution of cause. That is cause-effect are not chains. They're not total orders. They're not linear or sequential. Every effect has multiple (usually a dense infinity) causes. And every cause has multiple (usually a dense infinity) of effects. And the causes and effects are inextricably intertwined. The collective vs. individual distinction you're making pales in comparison to the arbitrary discretization of causality. Sorry, that's the best you get on short notice. [grin] - -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-219-3846, http://tempusdictum.com Power never takes a back step - only in the face of more power. -- Malcolm X -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHOS3LZeB+vOTnLkoRAl0wAJ9WKOJkV3izTt+Za6oGT6NJdQEpkQCeLz+Z a4tw0z0tzjVJrbT7qEa3AcA= =rIoJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
