My guess is that the "gaps" or synapses, have a lot to do with fine tuning the amount of damping in the brain's dynamical function. It appears that brains need to operate near the "edge of chaos", and some global control system fine tuning this would be desirable.
This probably explains the evolution of emotions. Phil Husband's group in Sussex have done a fair bit of work with "GasNets", which is inspired by the design, to make effective robotic controllers. Cheers On Mon, Jul 10, 2006 at 10:32:30PM -0400, Phil Henshaw wrote: > Yea, I go with the sense that there might be more going on in the brain > than a bunch of yes-no sparks. It might seem irrelevant but there's > never been any intelligence that didn't grow from a single sell. That's > not how we make computers, and we don't have any idea what purpose > nature is serving by making things that way. Something could be missing > in our model. Perhaps even more of a stretch, but a perfectly good > question, is what is nature doing in connecting neurons with gaps > anyway? You and I wouldn't make things that way, ever. If you want to > connect things just connect them for God's sake! Why the gaps? It's > an inscrutable design, found in only very few other natural system > structures, where critical intimate connections are made through a fluid > medium that freely circulates between all the other similar connections. > What the hell is that for anyway!? > > > Phil Henshaw ¸¸¸¸.·´ ¯ `·.¸¸¸¸ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > 680 Ft. Washington Ave > NY NY 10040 > tel: 212-795-4844 > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > explorations: www.synapse9.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Louis > > Macovsky, Dynamic BioSystems > > Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 3:52 PM > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons. > > > > > > Hi, > > There is also chemical feedback at the synapse such that the > > neuron can influence itself as to when the next transmission > > of nerotransmitter packet can be released. And The gap > > between polarization and depolarization along the neuron > > introduces a temporal importance as to the role a particular > > neuron will play within the network for any single set of > > information transmission. > > > > Lou > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 11:15 AM > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons. > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I think I am with Doug on this one. Isn't it the case that through > > > the interweaving of dendrites neurons can effect their > > probabilities > > > of firing over substantial distance? So the "powers" of a neuron > > > include not only firing or not firing, but influencing analogically > > > the firing of other neurons through dendritic potentials. > > > > > > Or is this just old-fangled neurology? > > > > > > N > > > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson > > > > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > > Date: 7/9/2006 12:00:16 PM > > > > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 37, Issue 9 > > > > > > > > Send Friam mailing list submissions to > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is > > more specific > > > > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..." > > > > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > > > 1. Re: Google Trends - plus an unexpected(?) result > > (Bill Eldridge) > > > > 2. 100 billion neurons (Jochen Fromm) > > > > 3. Re: 100 billion neurons (doug) > > > > 4. Re: 100 billion neurons (Jochen Fromm) > > > > 5. Re: 100 billion neurons (Martin C. Martin) > > > > 6. Re: 100 billion neurons (Robert Cordingley) > > > > 7. Mexican Elections fraud (Carlos Gershenson) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > > Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:29:19 +0200 > > > > From: Bill Eldridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Google Trends - plus an unexpected(?) result > > > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > > > > > > > Robert Holmes wrote: > > > > > Google now offer a product called Google Trends > > > > > (http://www.google.com/trends) which aggregates > > peoples' searches by > > > > > city, region etc. It's been described as "a place holder for the > > > > > intentions of humankind ? a massive database of > > desires, needs, wants, > > > > > and likes that can be discovered, subpoenaed, archived, > > tracked, and > > > > > exploited to all sorts of ends." (From the New York Times > > > > > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/05/business/05leonhardt.html?ex > > =1152763200&en > > > =94404589c34afe7e&ei=5070&emc=eta1 > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/05/business/05leonhardt.html?e > > x=1152763200&e > > > n=94404589c34afe7e&ei=5070&emc=eta1>) > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, just for fun I type in LANL. The "Cities" tab gives the > > > > > expected results: > > > > > 1. *Los Alamos*, NM, USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. *Livermore*, CA, USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. *Santa Fe*, NM, USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. *Oak Ridge*, TN, USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. *Albuquerque*, NM, USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The "Regions" tab is altogether more intriguing. > > > > > 1. *Iran* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. *United States* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. *India* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Time to call our friends at Homeland Security? > > > > > > > > > Not until you make sure that "lanl" doesn't mean "holiday > > spice cake" in > > > > Persian ;-) > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > > URL: > > > > > /pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20060708/0b8ae453/att > > achment-0001.h > > > tml > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > > Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 02:03:10 +0200 > > > > From: "Jochen Fromm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons > > > > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > > > > > > > A typical human brain has about 100 billion > > (10^11=100.000.000.000) > > > neurons, > > > > > > > > but each neuron follows only very simple > > integrate-and-fire rules. If we > > > > distribute a comparatively simple program on 1.000.000 > > machines (which > > is > > > > only a small fraction of the Internet, Google alone has > > between 50.000 > > > and > > > > 100.000 machines, and [EMAIL PROTECTED] has over five million > > volunteers), and > > > each > > > > is responsible for the simulation of 100.000 neurons, > > then we come close > > > > to the capacity of the human brain. How long will it take > > until we can > > > > build such a system and connect it successfully to the real world > > > > (through a robot) or a realistic virtual world (through > > an agent) ? > > > > I guess it won't be long. As Greg Egan describes in his novel > > > > "Permutation City", at first the simulation may be much > > slower than > > > > reality, but enough computers are already there. What do > > you think ? > > > > > > > > -J. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Message: 3 > > > > Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 17:23:37 -0700 > > > > From: "doug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons > > > > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > > > "A typical human brain has about 100 billion > > (10^11=100.000.000.000) > > > > neurons, > > > > > > > > but each neuron follows only very simple > > integrate-and-fire rules.' > > > > > > > > Comment: this implies a discrete ensemble of discrete > > events. But isn't > > > each > > > > neuron's likelihood of firing dependent on the solution > > in which it > > sits, > > > > the gradients of ions, and proximities to tier multiple > > firing neurons? > > > > > > > > In which case the brain is an infinite ensemble of an > > infinity of analog > > > > events. > > > > > > > > doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > lectures, archives, > > > > unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Message: 4 > > > > Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 02:53:31 +0200 > > > > From: "Jochen Fromm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons > > > > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting remark, but I don't think it really works this way. > > > > It is not an infinite ensemble of an infinite number of > > analog events. > > > > A neuron fires or not - a boolean event - and spikes are certainly > > > > discrete events. The ion channels, the gradients of ions, and all > > > > the chemical substances are only the "hardware" of the brain. One > > > > could compare it to transistors, wires, etc. If the genes could > > > > produce transistors instead of proteins, they would perhaps use > > > > digital circuits. However, the interesting part seems to be the > > > > software, esp. the code which is used (if there is any). There > > > > are of course at least four different levels of modelling, > > > > from boolean networks and sigmoid networks to spiking networks, > > > > see Fig. 3 in http://www.vs.uni-kassel.de/~fromm/Articles/LI.pdf > > > > > > > > -J. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > > Behalf > > > > Of doug > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 2:24 AM > > > > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' > > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons > > > > > > > > Comment: this implies a discrete ensemble of discrete > > events. But isn't > > > each > > > > neuron's likelihood of firing dependent on the solution > > in which it > > sits, > > > > the gradients of ions, and proximities to tier multiple > > firing neurons? > > > > > > > > In which case the brain is an infinite ensemble of an > > infinity of analog > > > > events. > > > > > > > > doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Message: 5 > > > > Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:15:48 -0400 > > > > From: "Martin C. Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons > > > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > > > > > I suspect you'd like Hans Moravec's books: > > > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0674576187 > > > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195136306 > > > > > > > > He uses Moore's law and estimates of the brain's > > computing power to > > > > calculate when we'll have human equivalence in "a > > computer." I forget > > > > the date, but it's not far. He also talks about a number of very > > > > interesting consequences of this. > > > > > > > > - Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Message: 6 > > > > Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:56:08 -0500 > > > > From: Robert Cordingley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons > > > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > > > > > I recollect that some years ago the AI community (at a > > AAAI conference I > > > > attended) claimed that each of the 10^11 neurons also had > > on average > > > > 10^4 connections resulting in a 10^15 computational 'size' for the > > > > brain. They also predicted we'd have a computer of > > similar power by > > > > 2015. Furrthermore it also stuck in my mind that 40% of > > the brain was > > > > claimed to be involved in vision (including reading). So these > > > > estimates lead one to think that it's going to be quite > > close to 2015 > > > > before we have a system with just the power of human > > vision. Being able > > > > to program such a machine was not part of the discussion > > at the time, > > > > which is a big question to me. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Robert Cordingley > > > > www.cirrillian.com > > > > > > > > Martin C. Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > >I suspect you'd like Hans Moravec's books: > > > > > > > > > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0674576187 > > > > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195136306 > > > > > > > > > >He uses Moore's law and estimates of the brain's > > computing power to > > > > >calculate when we'll have human equivalence in "a > > computer." I forget > > > > >the date, but it's not far. He also talks about a number of very > > > > >interesting consequences of this. > > > > > > > > > >- Martin > > > > > > > > > >============================================================ > > > > >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > > > >Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > > > >lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Message: 7 > > > > Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 15:51:21 +0200 > > > > From: Carlos Gershenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: [FRIAM] Mexican Elections fraud > > > > To: ECCO ECCO <[email protected]>, The Friday Morning > > > > Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> > > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; > > > > format=flowed > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > This has not much to do with research, but I feel everybody should > > > > know... > > > > > > http://complexes.blogspot.com/2006/07/mexican-presidential-election- > > > > fraud.html > > > > http://complexes.blogspot.com/2006/07/more-on-mexican-elections- > > > > fraud.html > > > > > > > > And also > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/world/americas/09mexico.html > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Carlos Gershenson... > > > > Centrum Leo Apostel, Vrije Universiteit Brussel > > > > Krijgskundestraat 33. B-1160 Brussels, Belgium > > > > http://homepages.vub.ac.be/~cgershen/ > > > > > > > > ?Tendencies tend to change...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Friam mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > > > > > > > > > > End of Friam Digest, Vol 37, Issue 9 > > > > ************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- *PS: A number of people ask me about the attachment to my email, which is of type "application/pgp-signature". Don't worry, it is not a virus. It is an electronic signature, that may be used to verify this email came from me if you have PGP or GPG installed. Otherwise, you may safely ignore this attachment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 8308 3119 (mobile) Mathematics 0425 253119 (") UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Australia http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks International prefix +612, Interstate prefix 02 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
