Hi. I think is a good idea not to let "die" dos software.
I still have some dos sofware (games and programs) on cds... i think. If is legal to upload to archive.org i'm up for it. I'm from Portugal by the way. Thanks! On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 12:54 AM Martin Iturbide <martiniturb...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi > > To preserve all old DOS software (freeware, shareware, demo, for > non-commercial use, open source, etc) I recommend creating individual > accounts on archive.org and uploading it there. The Internet Archive is a > non-profit public library in the US that can store copies of books and > archives according to the US copyright law (108). I think it is important > to not let the DOS software disappear from the earth. If someone has DOS > BBS backups with several files that are no longer available on the web, it > may be a good option to upload them there. > > About the "Freeware for non-commercial use". It goes against the OSI > definition, even if the author shares the source code, when he puts that on > the license it breaks the OSI definition "#6. No Discrimination Against > Fields of Endeavor". Check https://opensource.org/osd > > My opinion is that we should not risk the FreeDOS project with software > that is not formally open source software. We may describe the software, > create articles about it, share our own screenshots, and link that DOS > software (if it is legally available on the web), but not host non open > source files on a FreeDOS project server. > > I cross my fingers that the author of Diskman will accept to open source > it. > > Regards > > On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 5:48 PM Thomas Desi <t...@mttw.at> wrote: > >> Liam, >> WordTsar looks indeed „funny“ on my iMac. Thx for pointing it out. >> >> Regarding Raskin’s Editor: There are builds for Windows, Mac and Linux: >> >> >> https://web.archive.org/web/20080224100142/http://rchi.raskincenter.org/index.php?title=Download >> >> A recent Tribute to his ZOOM World is nice to try out here: >> >> http://www.raskinformac.com/#features >> >> … so it hasn’t fallen completely into oblivion. One finds the story all >> over the net when searching >> for example: Enso, Ubiquity, Archy, THE SWYFT CARD >> >> His son apparently tried for a while to push forward on this, but it all >> stopped at some point. >> I think this is because it works nice for single users, small data sets >> with text and so on, but not in larger contexts, especially multiplex and >> graphics content. >> >> - Thomas >> >> >> > Am 07.05.2021 um 23:11 schrieb Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com>: >> > >> > On Fri, 7 May 2021 at 18:29, Thomas Desi <t...@mttw.at> wrote: >> >> >> >> Maybe those legacy editors are still around in discussion because of >> their „paradigmas“ they created >> >> around editing text on a computer. >> > >> > Well, yes. >> > >> >> Editor „Brief“ refers maybe besides other features to „incremental“ >> Home / End Keys (e.g. first HOME press moves caret to Start-Of-Line, a >> second press moves the caret a line up, till Start-of-File) or more in >> general to key commands which became models for period of time for many >> editors. >> > >> > Aha! Interesting. I have not heard of that before. >> > >> >> Hard to say one is better then the other. We only became „locked into“ >> a system in the last 50 years. >> > >> > Very true. >> > >> > But there is real value in having a near-universal system. IBM CUA >> > came in at the end of the DOS era, but has persisted in some forms... >> > Windows, all the mainstream xNix desktops, OS/2, and even Mac OS X hew >> > to it to some degree. OS X more than Classic MacOS. >> > >> > It's partly why I do not use Vim or Emacs. I learned editors in the >> > early 1980s, when every one was totally different and many computers >> > had multiple different editors. I was au fait with dozens and switched >> > easily. >> > >> > CUA came as a huge relief; after it, one model and one UI worked >> everywhere. >> > >> > I don't care _how_ much editing power Vim or Emacs may have; they do >> > not conform to the dominant UI of the last 35+ years, and as such, I >> > am not interested in learning yet another UI. I will use the one that >> > works in Notepad, Gedit, Leafpad, Mousepad, Kate, Geany, Text Edit, >> > EDIT.EXE, EDITOR.EXE, etc. etc. >> > >> >> So each and every text editor (especially those) provokes a >> quasi-religious attitude of the user >> >> towards the computer and its behaviour. >> > >> > Exactly so, yes. >> > >> >> Adding pull-down menues or calling the menue by pressing F10 or F1 for >> Help… Most of these conventions are gone because of the ubiquity of the >> mouse or touchpad. >> > >> > True. >> > >> >> Printing, which has been such a killer issue, has become IMHO much >> less important lately, as most text feed into the web (blogs) or Emails. >> PDF as the main currency. Word’s doc format unfortunately is asked nearly >> in every domain as the common denominator. Be green - use your screen! >> > >> > True. >> > >> >> Designing a *complete* system for editing text must include the actual >> keyboard layout, dedicated keys, the pointing device, the editor software >> (yeah), and the… operating system. All need to finally feed into the >> „ergonomic“ aspect (key-chording in legacy Emacs can in bad cases lead to >> injury of the hands), free the unnecessary mental load (editing prose in >> vi/vim having in mind which mode one is in, is mindf**k). The two paradigma >> Emacs/Vi(m) are rather similar in contrast to the ACME and SAM editors, >> using the three button mouse. >> > >> > Agreed. >> > >> >> And just to mention it, there once was Jef Raskin's „Canon Cat“. His >> paradigma of „all is text“ (like Rob Pike’s ACME?) but denying the use of >> the mouse in favour of a copyrighted „Leap“ key, which basically is Emacs’ >> search-command. Gaining seconds but asking the user to retype typos in >> order to move the caret to that spot. It is amazing how these geniuses were >> somewhat wrong in predicting the future despite the objective superiority >> of their concepts. Raskin’s work (Swyft card, THE, ARCHY) dove into >> oblivion. >> > >> > Ha! As I read your message, I thought of the Cat. >> > >> > I wish someone would do a clone of its UI using normal PC keyboards >> > and (say) Emacs as its base. It was an inspired design. >> >> >> >> Rob Pike in 1991 wrote an article ( >> http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/1st_edition/help/help.pdf ) which is still >> worth reading. Let me quote: "Where will we be ten years from now? CRT’s >> will be a thing of the past, multimedia will no longer be a buzzword, >> pen-based and voice input will be everywhere, and university students will >> still be editing with emacs. Pens and touchscreens are too low-bandwidth >> for real interaction; voice will probably also turn out to be inadequate. >> (Anyway, who would want to work in an environment surrounded by people >> talking to their computers?) Mice are sure to be with us a while longer, so >> we should learn how to use them well.“ >> >> >> >> Did he say „ten years“? 1991 is now thirty years ago… >> > >> > :-/ >> > >> >> He didn’t speak about tablets/smartphones - but have you tried working >> with text editing on a touch-screen? Orrrgh. >> > >> > Oh my yes. >> > >> >> Today one can easily realize one’s own design of a keyboard, or have >> extra special macro keyboards, or pointing devices like roller mouse, >> trackpad, magic mouse etc. >> >> Still the software lacks enormously, especially for text editing in >> prose. Sound’s pretensiously silly, I know. >> >> But, Keyboard Commands seem for many people old fashioned and awkward >> in Text editing, navigating, working with the system. It’s all absurdly >> bloated, even the computer system is enormous. >> > >> > I agree again. We are going backwards nowadays. >> > >> >> Looking back at those thoughts, designs and ideas of thirty+ years >> ago, using DOS, trying out maybe Plan9 (hmm…?) is worthwhile to get an idea >> that there is more to computing than windows, linux or MacOS, more than >> MS-Word. This can only achieved if the software enters a status of >> „oldtimer“, like with cars in Europe, where after a while the whole issue >> of individual rights might of design ideas become „open source“ out of >> public interest. This might be very Un-American, right, I am writing from >> an European perspective. >> > >> > I don't know if you know, but Plan 9 and Acme, Rio etc. were inspired >> > by an earlier OS, called Oberon. It is still around, runs on modern PC >> > hardware, is FOSS, and is astonishingly small and fast. >> > >> > http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2009/04/22/oberon/ >> > >> > -- >> > Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven >> > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com >> > Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven >> > UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Freedos-user mailing list >> > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Freedos-user mailing list >> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user >> > > > -- > Martín Itúrbide > http://www.os2world.com > mar...@os2world.com > martiniturb...@gmail.com > Quito - Ecuador > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user >
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