Eric Auer schrieb: > Hi Michael :-) > >> - classic DOS games > > Yes - but even with a good PCI soundcard such as one with > Fortemedia FM801 chipset (similar to cmedia, low price but > nice compatibility) SB16 compatibility is broken if your > mainboard is too new...
It`s a P3 motherboard. My system is not the most hottest (4 GHZ, quad core, 64 bit...) but still relatively new and incompatible. This Fortemedia FM801 chipset is only good if BIOS offers sb16 emulation? > So a SB16 simulating card such as > the SBLive or SBPCI is the next choice. No bad idea. These cards are pretty old now, but I know someone who had one in past. Them where very good and I don`t think that these boards wouldn`t work bad on new operating systems also. Seams like them are nice cheap now also. :) This solution could work until I get my next motherboard - with pci express only? That`s what I did mean with in the long run. > Note that cmedia > has pretty bad SB16 compatibility in my experience. In mine also. :| > If all > else fails, you can still use Linux and DOSEMU to have a > virtual SB16 without much overhead. Running more complete > virtual PC just for the sake of virtual SB16 usually is a > waste of CPU speed / CPU time, but DOSEMU is just right. Sounds interesting. >> - legacy applications > > Yes... For example old point of sale terminal software :-) > Also old database systems and stuff. Custom-made software. > People typically can run all those in a window in Linux > or Windows, so the "host" OS can help out with drivers for > modern network (hardware and protocols) and printers etc. > >> - nostalgia > > Sure... I think that trying to keep ancient PC alive is too > much nostalgia, Agreed. > but running old DOS software on that oldish > PC which always annoyed you because it is too slow for Linux > or Windows is certainly a nice reason for nostalgic computing. Also agreed. > > My personal recommendation for a DOS PC: Minimum 386 with a > few MB RAM, better something like an early Pentium with a few > 10 MB RAM which can also do all games and maybe run Arachne > and MPXPLAY. For the latter I must say that a pocket size mp3 > player takes only a fraction of the space and electricity :-p. > A perfect DOS PC is something like a Pentium III or Socket7+ > with a few 100 MHz, AGP graphics and ISA sound, fast enough > for everything (incl. dual boot) but not TOO fast for games. > >> - interesting for programmers > > Indeed - DOS is small, and you are directly in touch with it. > Writing a small app or driver for DOS can really be fun :-). > >> - easy hardware access > > True, I myself once used DOS for realtime data collection. > While the kernel is no realtime OS, DOS does not eat CPU > time for itself, so as long as you do not access files etc > you often have all CPU and all hardware for yourself. > >> - very lightweight, starts very fast > > Yes :-). Some DOS users also like the "hotboot" way of > rebooting for that reason, as DOS boots faster than their > BIOS init stuff (in particular for SCSI controllers). The > hotboot thing just reloads DOS without redoing the BIOS > bootup stuff, but it only works if your DOS drivers all > are happy with such a "shallow" reboot... Yes, very nice. > >> - special purpose (backup, scan virus...) > > Quite popular purposes seem to be disk image backup and > restore (ghost, drive snapshot, ...) and installation > of, ironically Windows. The latter is because Linux has > more support for network/unattended install and can boot > from more types of media, so few people need DOS as a > helper to install Linux while many use it to install a > modern Windows. Other solutions like WinPE/BartPE which > lets you install Windows on CD/DVD or solutions which > let you boot/install Windows over network involve extra > complications or nonfree software like a special server. > >> Some BIOS are stupid like mine. It has really no legacy emulation > > How old is it? Answered already before in this mail. > But you are right - if your hardware has > PS/2 sockets, better connect keyboard/mouse there in the > first place... Almost all modern keyboard/mouse models > still seem to support those USB PS/2 adapter plugs. Hopefully. The manufactors doesn`t seam to care a lot about dos. > Dunno > if EFI involves any plans to support "legacy" OS like DOS! > If your hardware is so new that it does NOT have PS/2 > sockets, it very often WILL have USB PS/2 BIOS support. Cool. > >> My graphic card (Nvida Geforce FX) has VGA and VESA. There >> are not DOS drivers from Nvida. > > You do not need drivers - DOS games use VGA and VESA :-). > This is also why UNIVBE / FREEVBE do not work, the VBE is > already in your VGA BIOS so nobody made separate drivers. > >> If I do some stress test like scitech display doctor it will crash. > > What is "it"? The graphics card? Overheating maybe? The test fails with an error message and then only cold start works. Overhearing is not the problem. In Windows it works also for new games very stable and the temperature is ok. >> Also the benchmark is very slow (only 5-15 frames per second). > > Depends on what the benchmark does. DOS games typically do > not use hardware-assisted 3d that often, but a fast VESA > framebuffer (VBE 2.0) would be good. Seams nvida`s vga/vesa support is only to install the operating system. After that a new driver with good performance is loaded. >> The web browser arachne runs with 1024*768 with 2 MB VESA very slow. > > You may want to use a ramdisk and lots of RAM for Arachne. > But this browser is not that fast anyway, I believe. Sorry. > A graphics card with only 2 MB RAM is also quite old by now. My grapic card has 256 MB. I did mean arachne`s best setting/option for my card is VESA 2 MB. Other supported cards (maybe faster performance) are not supported. Old old hardware arachne was much faster then on new. >> When I start some classic game like [1] the graphic is pretty messed up. >> [1] http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/574/International+Karate.html > > Can you explain "messed up" some more? Yes. The game isn`t crashed but the representation is messed up. To give your and idea who it looks like... http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/5659/20080517133621tq0.jpg http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/170/20080517133646cl3.jpg > You should try if it > makes a difference whether you load EMM386 and some others. >> Also other strange behavior. The system hangs or applications >> crash randomly. I am not sure if this is only related to the >> graphic board or what... > > Try with fewer drivers, in particular without emm386 and without > "fancy" complex drivers like USB and network drivers... Also DOS > might confuse simple power supplies by having too little CPU load. For old and incompatibly games I always use another config with more compatible things ans less tsr`s. >> Other games also look messed up. Some games are working >> (perhaps the better programmed ones) well. > > You should make a list which games look messed up in what way > and which games work. Ok, I add it to my todo list. > >> But if I look on google I find that most people recommend >> dosbox or dosemu for legacy applications. Very much don't > > Who are "most people"? Well, just when I search on google that`s what I find. >> recommend to mess with DOS on new hardware. >> DOS compatible hardware is recommend. > > DOSBox is extremely popular for DOS games in Windows: It simulates > a complete classic DOS PC with soundblaster and everything. And it > is easy to setup. You do not even have to know how DOS works, no > drivers to load, nothing. Main problem is that it is too virtual. > This makes it a bit slow even on new PC, and a bit unrealistic. On > the other hand, ancient games sometimes crash on new hardware just > because it is too fast! For more serious DOS projects I still think > that real hardware or things like DOSEmu or a fully virtual PC like > Bochs Qemu VMWare can be good choices. The latter because they are > more realistic than DOSBox (you really install a DOS in those :-p) > but still real hardware is faster than virtual hardware. VMware is worse choice for classic dos games, it`s and virtualizer, not an emulator. Rarely any games work inside. But one thing is right, if something is working in VMware it will work also in a lot other places. Bochs/Qemu are better. Dosbox is best. Never tried dosemu. Btw. afaik dosbox also works on a lot other os then win also. On my comp I also don`t feel that games in dosbox run to fast/slow. You can adjust this with settings. The unrealistic part is to find out what setting to set. > the other hand, ancient games sometimes crash on new hardware just > because it is too fast! Normaly only because of to fast and slowdown is fine enough? >> Yes, sound is one of the biggest issues currently. My AC97 is not >> even detected in quickview. > > Is it really AC97? Or is it HDA? Yes, AC97. > Does MPXPLAY support it already? No. >> What a shame, it was a nice imagination not to boot a full windows >> just to watch some media. > > I think some nVidia boards had a tiny Linux in the BIOS for that. What do you mean? Linux on graphic card? >> www.bttr-software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=3174&page=0&order=time&category=all >> Yes, I did read the whole thread. Interesting. But doesn`t seam like >> something is really happening at this time. :| > > Well, if people post new posts in this thread, new things can happen. > Main problem is that "virtual SB16 real AC97 via JLM driver" is a very > un-trivial driver to write. People may be able to write components, > but to combine them, you need lowlevel/system programmers who speak > both Asm and C and are sufficiently motivated... > >>>> Virtual Sound Blaster is here: >>>>> zap.eltrast.ru/en/dldos.html >>>>> cs.ozerki.net/zap/pub/vsb/ > >> Also interesting one. Not sb2.0 but might be still useful for someone. >> To bad this only works if you have already *any* recognized soundcard. > > Which soundcards are recognized? I thought VSB would also support > non-soundcard output such as Covox (DAC connected to printer port) > and internal speaker...? If not, we could add it :-). This virtual soundblaster brings for me in VMware and on bare metal "incompatible memory manager - QEMM 7.0+ req". No matter if himem + emm386 or jemmex. With himem only there is no error message, but without emm386 I guess I couldn`t even play duke. In past I had ms-dos 6.22. Did try QEMM and optimizing (also less aggressive method). After counting the memory it hangs. Also QEMM or memmaker + FreeDOS does not seam to like each other. Greetings Michael Reichenbach ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
