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On Wed, 27 Jun 2012, [email protected] wrote:
"It (PSN) allows software manufacturers and websites to identify individuals more precisely." From: http://www.geek.com/glossary/P/psn-processor-serial-number/
- From that same article, "there is no benefit to home users, as websites are not using this technology." I am not disputing that the serial numbers exist. I'm wondering how viable they are as an attack vector, and thus how much of a threat they realistically pose.
Intel's misrepresented that it would discontinue inserting PSN and in its place use TPM (Trusted Platform Module). Whereas, Intel continued to insert PSN in its next processor, the Pentium 4. See http://www.hardwarecentral.com/archive/index.php/t-49252.html
You keep posting links to this forum archive, but this is hardly an authoritative source. A lot of the claims you're referencing on this forum are completely unsubstantiated.
TPM's invasion of privacy is discussed at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html and see section on How can TC be abused? at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa- faq.html
All of the scary scenarios posed by the authors of both of these pages are implicitly dependent on the operating system and software intentionally making use of the TPM chip. Even if the TPM chip is activated, and even if the OS loads appropriate drivers for it, the chip itself, to my understanding, doesn't _do_ anything unless software running on the system instructs it to. So far, I'm seeing a lot of hypothetical use cases, but no evidence actual software that typical consumers would have installed (let alone software that would be included in a distribution like FB) that makes use of the TPM chip in any way.
TPM is a 1 GB microchip on the motherboard. TPM is not in the processor. TPM has an universally unique identifier (UUID). In addition to its own visible UUID, TPM creates a composite UUID containing the serial numbers of other hardware such as the internal hard drive. Websites, government, IT administrators and hackers can see these UUIDs.
How? How can they see these UUIDs? How do they access them? Where are they reported?
For example, if a consumer purchases an e-book or software and changes his or her internal hard drive or copies it onto another computer, the e-book will not play.
But that's only possible if the ebook in question was encumbered by DRM in the first place, right? If I only buy DRM-free ebooks then how would the TPM prevent me from reading them on any system I choose?
Government, hackers and information brokers can track the activity and geolocation of computers by their UUIDs. Websites that read the UUIDs can sell this tracking information along with other tracking information to information brokers who resell it to investigators who resell it to abusers.
Again, how would a website access the UUID of a remote client? And furthermore, how would a website determine the geolocation of that client? I don't understand how you're making these logical leaps, please explain the mechanisms in detail.
Besides being tracked by use of a credit card, consumers can be tracked by the UUID when they do online banking.
Is it known that banking websites are accessing and tracking UUIDs? If so, same question as above, how are they doing it?
Hackers had it easy when one OS dominated the world. One article discussed that hackers are performing less software attacks and instead attacking processors.
Which article? Please cite your source.
Hacking the processor at the kernel level gives complete remote control of the computer.
I'm not sure that this statement makes any sense to me. Could you explain how these attacks work at a technical level?
A PSN makes the processor visible online. A PSN makes the processor vulnerable to hacks.
Again, I'm not following your logical leaps here. How exactly does the PSN make the processor "visible online" or "vulnerable to hacks"? As far as I am able to understand from the sources you have cited, the PSN is merely a static serial number, much like the MAC address on a NIC. How does that make a system "visible online" or "vunlerable to hacks"? I must be missing some vital technical details.
Firmware rootkits that infect the BIOS are not always erased by flashing the BIOS. See articles on the mebromi firmware rootkit.
Mebromi attacks the BIOS, not the processor. It also has nothing to do with PSNs or TPMs, as far as I can tell it ignores both. I'm not sure what your point is. If you're saying that malware can infect the BIOS, then I agree. If you're trying to say that PSN or TPM are in any way a factor in that, then I'm just not seeing any evidence to support that.
A mesh network and OpenVPN and proxies, such as TOR, do not fully grant privacy. The PSN and/or TPM's UUID are visible offline. I cannot cite references on this. I have been hacked offline, first by my wifi card and after I removed my wifi card and bluetooth card, by my PSN.
You were hacked by your PSN? What do you mean by "hacked" and how was it done?
Yes, computers can be hacked via their wifi cards even though the computers are offline. See http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/computersecurity/hacking/2006-08- 02-wireless-hackable_x.htm
I remember following this one when it was first reported. They found a way to cause a buffer overflow in the device drivers for a number of WiFi chipsets and were able to trigger the exploit using 802.11 beacons, so it worked whenever the cards were listening for APs. It was a flaw in the device drivers, it was subsequently patched. Many newer chipsets obviate the issue by discarding malformed frames before they reach the device drivers.
There are plenty of articles on hacking bluetooth due to bluetooth's MAC address being visible.
Again, explain what you mean by "hacking". I'm familiar with bluetooth hacking, but this statement seems to imply that the MAC address hold some higher importance than any of the techniques I'm familiar with. Asside from the obvious, recording that you've seen a particular address and "tracking" it when it's in proximity to one of your sensors, I'm not clear on what value the MAC address itself would hold. And tracking bluetooth devices by their MAC address is quite possible, but also easy to mitigate. The radio can be turned off, and then it's effectively invisible.
The old methods of tracking computers were IP address and MAC address of the wifi card. If this were completely sufficient, there would be no reason for PSN and TPM. The fact that they exist means that they enable tracking of computers via hardware.
Explain it again, how is a PSN different from a MAC address at a technological level? They seem like they're pretty much the same thing, execpt for the proposed use case.
Don't give a false sense of security by promising privacy unless you are also offering hardware privacy. Except for MAC address on wifi cards, we had hardware privacy prior to Pentium II's PSN. FreedomBox can ask Marvell and/or other manufacturer to "down grade" to the early 1990s and give us back our hardware privacy.
You know that hard drives and flash memory devices also have UUIDs, right? Serial numbers are not uncommon at all on modern hardware. However, I'm still skeptical of how practical it would be to track a specific individual by the serial numbers encoded in their hardware. I'm not even convince that it's a cost effective way to track someone, seems like there are cheaper and easier ways to do it. If you can prove my skepticism wrong, I'd love to see it. If you're seriously worried about this kind of stuff, then I'm surprised you would risk using any kind of computer at all. Ken Thompson wrote a very relevant article almost 30 years ago on what it means to trust your computer. http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html Best regards, Ben the Pyrate -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJP6/FzAAoJEMco5sYyM+0wyNMH/16xrnPJAgFy1UuWan+uFaOh Cc4pMP45AegY3eZZtdTHzrMlh8pyyPTIAiRL3jAEBAW5CBAgu84L50si6IG+P8PI I+8VHxzApoK6TAHB9oWvI8Mt/w2s2gftYpOvmmG+n5V9gRLG1KxryHsX+kjrm3H+ Bzc4q+3s0mBWbONBYxRgLfr1DvK2pKZUETbHNMvX7XfPohnHnQGOi4Q18ki6hAlp XjuH+4+lk1GP7krxZWIFrQAnre/0DM8upw/X2vhbGDOdS6O4vF9hL5kueKvUcBTp ACkk5jOsKQyMscRM1kNtE28/quCvXkKCteA5V1IRd3zQQGpSKacMgbqD3qYM+1k= =monK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Freedombox-discuss mailing list [email protected] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
