--On June 7, 2008 2:41:32 PM +0800 Adrian Chadd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
2008/6/7 Paul Schmehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Not only is this wrong, but it completely misses the point. Why should
Jo have to upgrade to find out if his servers will fail under the
conditions already articulated in existing, unresolved PRs that affect
hardware that he is presently using? That's a bit like saying, "Buy
this new car. Sure it has bugs that could easily directly affect you,
but what's the chance you'll encounter them? in the off chance that
they do, then you can help us resolve them."
The software is Free. The car was Bought (or suggested to be bought.)
Re-visit the analogy with a free car that a friend wants to give you.
(Car analogies suck.)
Yes, they do. It was the best I could come up with on the spur of the
moment.
Trust me. From a server admin's perspective, a bug affects you if it
exists in hardware you use. Whether or not you're actually using the
OS is completely irrelevant. Upgrading to the OS would be foolhardy.
Even testing it on a handful of boxes will not prove that it won't fail
under load in production. Anyone who has done testing knows it can
only simulate, not duplicate, the conditions under which production
servers run. I personally have experienced catastrophic failures after
extensive testing that revealed no problems.
You're using free software. This translates to "lots of people have
put in a lot of effort to provide something to the community which
they can use, at no cost, if it suits them."
Of course. What it *shouldn't* translate to is STFU and eat our dog food
or go somewhere else.
I've lectured enough. If anyone doesn't get the point by now further
explanation isn't going to help.
I still don't think you get it. FreeBSD is a community. A community
works when enough people contribute positively towards furthering the
goals of the project. Jo is a user. He sounds like he is using it in
some reasonably critical and money-earning roles. Jo can participate
by testing stuff on test hardware, reporting back issues and working
with the community. Bitching about there being no long-term support
for releases isn't constructive. Some developer comments may not be
constructive either, but this is a -community project-. Join the
-community- and help out.
Here's a hint for you. Jo already contributes. So do I. Furthermore,
both of us deeply appreciate the work that the developers do to produce
FreeBSD and have stated so repeatedly.
It doesn't matter if running a long-term support project would be
beneficial for a certain subset of the userbase, its a losing
situation to cater to them unless they somehow contribute back to the
community.
This is precisely the attitude that I am objecting to. Translated for the
average user it states, "If you're using and not contributing, then shut
up. You haven't earned the right to complain."
Open source projects are not free. They cost the developers in time and
effort. They also cost the users in dealing with untested bugs, dealing
with making many disparate pieces of software work together rather than
using a fully integrated commercial package.
Open source projects also have benefits. Developers get the benefit of a
huge plus on their resumes. This translates directly into increased
income for some of them and could for all of them. They also benefit from
intangibles such as the pride of a job well done, the respect of their
peers and the admiration of their users. Users get benefits as well.
They get to use a system that works better than many commercial products
and has a great deal more flexibility.
But don't think for one minute that open source is free for users and only
costs developers.
Neither "side" deserves to be insulted and talked down to.
Maybe some developers need to quit. If the work is so difficult and
stressful that they can't behave in a professional manner, perhaps it's an
indication that they've overextended themselves and need to take a step
back. There are few that have displayed an attitude that clearly states
that they think they are doing all the contributing and users are doing
nothing. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Paul Schmehl
If it isn't already obvious,
my opinions are my own and not
those of my employer.
