On Tue, 6 Sep 2005, Igor Shmukler wrote:

Thank you very much for a detailed reply. I was aware of many of the things you mentioned, but it never hurts to hear something one more time.

How do you feel about small incremental improvements to name lookup?

What about looking up device name in the structure itself for VCHR nodes then prepending /dev/ and returning device name, as a first step?

If incremental improvements sound like a good idea, maybe we could do a few small modifications that would cover some additional cases. Would not it be good?

This is an issue of some importance to me, as reliable naming is very useful in the world of security -- especially for audit trails, where you want to provide reliable security log information for intrusion detection and post-mortems. I have a few things in mind --

I'd like to offer something like a best-effort VOP_GETPATH(), which will be implemented by synthetic file systems to return a path "to the file system root" for a node. This would be implemented by file systems like procfs and devfs to handle cases where the name cache wasn't used. For example, it would return 'ptyp0' when pointed at /dev/ptyp0, and then it will be the name system's responsibility to figure out from the file system root back through the next file system. For file systems not supporting it, EOPNOTSUPP might be returned.

One of the particularly not-possible-to-handle-cases is NFS, though, and I'm not sure we should expect to be able to hand it. As with the Sun/BSD/UNIX VFS/UFS, it really is designed around the idea of only files and directories being first class objects, not names. There's no mechanism for cache invalidation, unlike with local file systems, however, so we may simply be screwed here :-).

Robert N M Watson



Thank you in advance,

Igor

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Igor Shmukler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:21:47 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re[2]: vn_fullpath() again


On Tue, 6 Sep 2005, Igor Shmukler wrote:

You are correct about the Unix file system organization, but does it
mean reliable vnode to fullname conversation is not possible?

Yes.  Get over it.

Well, I do not think it is a Yes. I very much think it is a No. You
should have continued reading my email 'til the middle or even farther.

There are various tricks that can be played to increase the chances of
finding a name in the name cache, but those tricks run out quickly on
systems like NFS servers where files can be accessed without being looked
up since the last boot, or with background fsck.  This is a fundamental
property of the UNIX file system design, and it while it offers some quite
powerful capabilities, nothing changes the fact that names are
fundamentally second class systems in the file system and VFS design.

The main tricks that can be played are:

- Don't purge intermediate but unused nodes from the name cache.  A
   specific design choice in FreeBSD has been to allow cache entries for
   unused nodes to be removes so that the nodes can be reused.  On systems
   that rapidly consume vnodes, this allows more vnodes to be recycled, so
   means more memory available.  However, it also means that it is less
   likely to be possible to reconstruct a name from the name cache.

- Maintain references to cache entries instead of vnodes when accessing
   leaf files.  This is actually somewhat the approach taken by Linux --
   typically the hardest name to "identify" is the last segment to reach a
   file, since files can have hard links (and directories typically don't).
   That name can rapidly be invalidated due to renaming, unlinking,
   linking, and so on, and hence can be quite stale, but if you assume the
   name space is static, this will help out with the "files don't have
   parents" problem.

- With a minor redesign of UFS, eliminating hard links, it is possible to
   add a directory back-pointer to the parent of a file.  In this case,
   there is an authoritative reference to the parent.  Mind you, this comes
   with many down-sides: Apple attempted to ship a UNIX system without
   support for hard links, and had to rapidly hack support for it back into
   the file system.

- Maintain a parent back-pointer for files in the vnode, reflecting the
   last directory used to reach the file, so that you can search that
   directory to find a possible name.  This requires different reference
   management behavior, prevents directories from falling out of the cache
   if a file reached via the directory is in use, and will also require
   walking directories, which can be very expensive.

At heart, though, fundamental issues remain: files can have no names, or
they can be looked up using a name that is removed, yet still have another
name.  They can have several names.  They can be accessed without any
lookup.  The same name can refer to several files due to mountpoint
covering.  Throughout the design, names are assumed to be only fleetingly
valid (during the lookup), and of secondary importance after that.

Most systems I've looked at try to work around a lack of names in two
ways:

(1) They treat the name as something valid only at time of lookup.  For
     example, the Solaris audit system captures a name used to look up a
     node, and after that it is the responsibility of the consumer of the
     audit trail to identify any name operations that might affect the name
     of an object in use, if names are important.  Typically they have to
     handle three names during lookup: path to process root, path from
     process root to cwd, and path from cwd to file.

(2) Apple has an underlying file system, HFS+, that actually maintains a
     fairly strong notion of directory hierarchy, via its catalog, so you
     can look up parent nodes.  They maintain a vnode backpointer from
     children to parents in VFS, set up during lookup.  However, this
     breaks for several reasons: volfs, which allows access to files by
     device + inode number, NFS, which allows access to files not by path,
     and their hacks to re-add hard links using a special directory, which
     can result in no sensible name being returned at all.  This is why if
     you look at Darwin/Mac OS X audit trails, you'll often just see lists
     of inode numbers and device numbers instead of names.

(3) They attempt to strengthen the name cache, either lowering the ability
     to recycle system memory for intermediate directories, or accepting
     more stale data.  Either way, the approaches fall down in the face of
     the fundamental design choice to deprioritize names: NFS, direct inode
     access, hard links, mount point grafting.

(4) Maintain parallel data structures, such as used by HADB, to construct
     "directory trees", and fall back on expensive disk searching
     algorithms to handle edge cases, rename, NFS access, and so on.


Robert N M Watson



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