-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I couldn't have said it as well. I agree with the concerns of Jamie and their importance.
On 13/09/2010 22:14, emijrp wrote: > Hi all; > > I think that Jamie has started an important topic. I don't think that WMF is > going to usurp Wikipedia and the sister projects now or in the future, but > it is statistically possible. If we want to protect us, the human knowledge > and our work of this hypothetical scenario, we need complete full dumps > frequently. But this scenario is a malicious one, and I think that there are > many more dangerous posibilities, and unfortunately, they are common. > > For example, small or massive lost of data due to natural disasters, > crackers attacks, stolen passwords, hardware and software bugs, sudden crazy > sysops, and _human errors_. Is WMF ready for that? > > Long time ago I searched info about that, but I only found these > links[1][2]. Recently, I have been concerned about this again. Most of the > Wiki[mp]edia projects are small, and their full backups are updated every > week[3] and they can be stored everywhere, but the largest ones like English > Wikipedia gets outdated soon[4] (now, it is +200 days old). > > I don't know so much about the infrastructure and how WMF servers are > allocated around the world, so, I want to ask a simple question: > > In the case of a complete disaster in the "main" servers, will WMF be able > to restore all the Wiki[mp]edia contain using backups? > > We got a terrible fright when 3000 images were deleted accidentally in > 2008[5] and I think that not all were recovered. > > When people ask about images dump the most common reply is: "Are you going > to store 7 TB (Commons)?" I can't store that at home of course, but, I'm > sure that a few universities or entities around the world can, not only for > backup purposes, for researching too (in full resolution or thumbs). > > Also, I think that we need to start mirroring Wiki[mp]edia dumps to other > servers around the globe, as the common GNU/Linux ISOs mirrors do. Also, > Library of Congress said some time ago that they are going to save a copy of > all the tweets sent to Twitter.[6] When are they going to save a copy of > Wiki[mp]edia? I hope we have learnt a bit since Library of Alexandria was > destroyed. > > I don't want that an error moves us back to January 15, 2001. > > Regards, > emijrp > > [1] http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Disaster_Recovery > [2] http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Offsite_Backups > [3] http://download.wikimedia.org/ > [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Emijrp/Wikipedia_Archive > [5] > http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2008-September/039265.html > [6] http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/04/loc-google-twitter/ > > 2010/9/8 Jamie Morken <jmor...@shaw.ca> > >> Hi, >> >> I was involved in an open source project that was usurped by one of the >> main developers for the sole reason of making money, and that project >> continues now to take advantage of the community to increase the profit of >> that developer. I never would have thought such a thing was possible until >> I saw that happen. If that developer wasn't acting greedy, there would now >> be open source hardware for radio transceivers of all types, but instead >> there is only open source software for radio of all types. I find it a >> shame, and when I was working on that project I could *feel* it being >> usurped! I unfortunately may be paranoid as I feel the same thing here with >> the wikimedia foundation usurping wikipedia. If you don't believe me, just >> consider that it is a very gradual process, like getting people used to not >> being able to download image dumps anymore, and ignoring ALL requests to >> restore this functionality. Also failing to provide full history backups of >> the flagship wiki. These two facts allow the wikimedia foundation to >> maintain the control of intellectual property that wasn't created by the >> people. If you want the wikimedia foundation to respect you as volunteers, >> you will have to DEMAND respect by making sure that they never usurp the >> project. I think the best way to do this is to make sure we can all >> download up to date full history with images wikipedia's so a fork at any >> time is possible. Sure it may be paranoid, but trust me it is worth it to >> be paranoid regarding a project as important as wikipedia. I have been in >> situations like this before, I wish I had acted before even if I was wrong! >> I wouldn't even be speaking now except for reading the heart-felt words of >> volunteers in this thread that are unhappy with how the wikimedia foundation >> is running. We need to organize to get wikimedia foundation to release >> images tarballs, they are only ignoring multiple requests to do so, so far. >> >> cheers, >> Jamie >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikitech-l mailing list >> wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >> > _______________________________________________ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMjo/DAAoJEHCAuDvx9Z6LeksH/jssMcljypFVIMIihCkz7XkU XP0KVtHlmUCg82LfYu6BsdpnYmSdcvYFfXz8d0cNZNz/RuaJhgCOocBhyiMhwZre oM5JU7C6isXbPFdlp04BWM83ZFWrm901Pu9IGtiYatu/0VRcdEa88FNcL/kirW/U y9pERav89ofcKz1aAHQ+uvz3Bhyd41FlMp+1BwfBO6o1u2PbSg0cf3UwpttM/vUt lzVWpQ+RnStxAaE3krDaa6DDmQ7y2zbfWvN35ErWhcZykpU5jnpmqD8hOJ5J+x6A L/DSnjLrN/wIbJtjP3CrNyFG03PuKX+Mi1PLc7eM17joDqXJ4cYxvIWxHcLqSyc= =3FHI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
