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----- Reply message ----- From: "Ariel Jakobovits" <arielj...@yahoo.com> To: "flex-dev@incubator.apache.org" <flex-dev@incubator.apache.org> Subject: bay area folks and flash Date: Wed, Apr 18, 2012 5:40 pm The truth is, it amazes me what exists in the ecosystem of software development on the client today. Adobe is giving up on flash for ria, windows works on only windows, apple only on apple, html and CSS suck across browsers and in terms of features...the only area with stability is the server side where you can work with anything you want and not care about portability. On Apr 18, 2012, at 1:35 AM, איליה גזמן <gazman1...@gmail.com> wrote: > I remember some one say once, "*Write once, run anywhere*" (*WORA*)" witch > latter became "Write once, bug anywhere" and this is the future that I see > in HTML5. > > What is the biggest different from HTML5 to flash. Flash Player is managed > by only one Company, Adobe. > HTML5 is running above Chrome, IE, Safari and more... may be after long > time HTML5 will stabilized, but then when you want to modify it, you need > to speak with minimum 3 companies to so. > Adobe is not immune to bugs, but she is the only one who fix > them according to her own goals, more then that, same developers fix bugs > on IE and Chrome. > > I am not sure about what is going to happen but it seams like everyone is > going mad... > > > 2012/4/18 jude <flexcapaci...@gmail.com> > >> Hi Mike, >> >> From the newsletter, "Those of you who attended our meeting on April 16 >> were struck by Lee Brimelow's emphatic exhortation to ActionScript and Flex >> programmers: 'If you want to continue to earn a living, you MUST get your >> head out of the sand and learn about HTML5.'" >> >> We know what it is and what it does. In fact I was at an HTML5 conference >> last weekend to see if anything had changed. Do you know what *the >> speakers*said about JavaScript and HTML5? It's a fundamentally flawed >> environment. >> *They *said that. These weren't Flash developers. They said what we all >> already know. They said Google, who has their own browser (so they would >> know right?), is well aware that it's flawed which is why they were working >> on Dart. But Dart is a lost cause as well because it has to compile down to >> again, a "fundamentally flawed environment". There weren't any Flash >> developers there except the one or two I knew and they didn't say anything. >> They mentioned a lot of neat features spread broadly across browsers that >> would be nice to have one day. BTW These were developers from every >> background and all looking for answers. >> >> I humbly disagree with you. HTML5 is not the answer or an alternative for >> Flash. It has major cross browser issues, bogs down on basic animations >> when it works and it renders and behaves differently in every browser. >> There's no substitute. Effectively, you're abandoning your Flash and Flex >> developers and their clients. What are we supposed to do? HTML5 is not the >> answer. >> >> You said, "...winning back trust and credibility was a long term process, >> one that basically involved us being clear and open about our plans..." >> That's not going to win back trust or credibility. When you take into >> account how your plans affect us, your customers and our clients and your >> business partners (RIM, Facebook, any anyone's that uses or relies on the >> Flash Player) and make decisions that protect all of our interests and >> future as well then you'll have it. >> >> When you say "we're not going to talk about Flex anymore", "HTML5 is a >> better long term choice than Flash", "we're not developing mobile Flash" >> you make a huge impact on all of the developers and businesses using your >> technology. You've put some of them out of business by simple PR mistakes >> (you still haven't fired or hired a PR team???) and by your current stance >> on Flash and HTML5 and your current pigeon holed marketing you've called >> all of our judgement into question because we chose and recommended Flash. >> That marketing or lack of marketing directly affects us. >> >> Judah Frangipane >> >> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Mike Chambers <mcham...@adobe.com> wrote: >> >>> I understand that there is still frustration around all of this, but >>> mischaracterizing what we said doesn't help anyone. >>> >>> In regards to HTML5, we said that Flash is really good at a lot of things >>> (animations, apps, video, casual games, branding experiences, art) and >> that >>> you could continue to use Flash for this type of content. But, >> increasingly >>> over the next couple of years, more and more of this type of stuff is >> going >>> to be done directly in the browser. It is in your interest to at least >>> have a basic understand of the capabilities of HTML5, because your >> clients >>> ARE going to ask you about. Whether you actually learn and use it is up >> to >>> you and your individual projects, but it is in your interest to at least >>> understand the capabilities. >>> >>> As far as the question of "how do we tell our managers that Flash isnt >>> dead, or that Flash is the best choice for a project", you need to talk >>> about the realities, which includes discussion technical details such as >>> player penetration, Flash on mobile, alternative, and development costs. >>> Again, this is something that you have to decide on a case by case >> basis, >>> and in same cases Flash is NOT the best choice. >>> >>> We did acknowledge communication missteps in Novemeber. However, I did >> not >>> say it would not happen again. I did say that we have taken steps >>> internally and externally to try and ensure that we communicate clearer >> and >>> more effectively and ensure that internally teams are considering >> community >>> and developer needs when making these types of decisions. >>> >>> I also said that winning back trust and credibility was a long term >>> process, one that basically involved us being clear and open about our >>> plans, and then doing those plans. Basically, we have to tell you what we >>> plan to do, and then do it. Even then some people are still not going to >>> put their faith in us. We get it, we have to just move forward and try to >>> be open about what we are doing. >>> >>> Again, I understand the frustration, but mischaracterizing the discussion >>> really doesn't help anyone. It only makes it more difficult for people to >>> understand what Adobe is doing and why. >>> >>> mike chambers >>> >>> m...@adobe.com >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 17, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Tony Constantinides wrote: >>> >>>> I was there. Basically Adobe confirmed there moving ahead with Flash >> on >>>> Gaming and video (in that order) >>>> Lots of new functionality coming out for gaming, with video they >>>> concentrating on the big media companies and there needs and screw the >>>> little guy. >>>> I understand the direction there going and they may be successful, >> but >>>> they stated that they cannot please everyone and have to make decisions >>> to >>>> move ahead. Translation: We reserve the right to screw the community if >>>> money is involved. >>>> There acknowledge that they miscommunciated before and claim it will >> not >>>> happen again. Umm, ok. >>>> They also stated that too many Flash and Flex guys have there head >> in >>>> the sand and now need to learn HTML 5.0 as they see a "huge >>> oppourtunity". >>>> I noticed they did not mention Flex anymore. My take on all this is >> sell >>>> your Adobe shares while there stil over $30. >>>> Many developers ask how they will expalin to their managers that >> Flash >>>> is not dead. Adobe mumbled something about "technical choice" and >>>> "alternatives". Its pretty clear that the engineers at Adobe have NEVER >>> had >>>> to explain to non-technical clients about technical direction. They >> left >>> it >>>> to consultants, and exsaperated employees of smal companies. I can only >>>> shake my head. It sounds like 10 year olds saying "people will play >> with >>> me >>>> if I still cool".Umm, ok. >>>> They mention there not going to compete with Unity in the gaming >> field, >>>> but now they impose this "charge" on high-end gaming because gaming >>>> companies say "we do not feel your heart in it, if Adobe is not making >>>> money on Flash". I see the logic, and Adobe should make money. >>>> I hope that works out for them. I cannot see how though. >>>> I moving on to Android development in Java and so are many of the Flex >>>> guys there. What happens to Adobe, I could not care less. I already >> sold >>> my >>>> shares. Just my 2 cents.... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Ariel Jakobovits < >> arielj...@yahoo.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> anyone in the bay area attend the future of flash event last night at >>>>> adobe? >>>>> wondering what was said. >>>>> >>>>> Ariel Jakobovits >>>>> Email: arielj...@yahoo.com >>>>> Phone: 650-690-2213 >>>>> Fax: 650-641-0031 >>>>> Cell: 650-823-8699 >>>>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Flex/Flash/Android/C# dev
