On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 5:59 PM Olly Woodman <ollywood...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 05:54, Jim DeLaHunt <list+ffmpeg-...@jdlh.com> wrote: > > > On 2020-07-04 07:43, Nicolas George wrote: > > > [In the FFmpeg project,] [t]here is work in making highly-optimized > > > decoders, this work is impressive and creative…. But as far as I can see, > > > that is mostly all there is going on. The rest seems to be rather basic: > > > fixing bugs…, implementing support for > > > features that were decided and designed elsewhere. > > > > > > And it is not just that it is not happening: there is genuine opposition > > > to creativity: things that are not already justified externally, things > > > that do not look like well-known patterns, are met with scepticism and > > > eventually rejected. > > > > > > At this point, we should ask ourselves: > > > > > > Is it what we want the project to be, or is it just what we have let it > > > become? > > > > > > I do not think this evolution is the result of a deliberate choice. I > > > think it is more the result of the stress of success and the stress of a > > > fork. Success can stifle creativity, because creativity implies the risk > > > of failure: the project has become advert to risk. > > > > > > It has evolved that way, but are we fine with it? > > > > > > I personally am not…. > > > > I am really happy to see this discussion starting up. It is good timing; > > some new governance committees are forming. They might be able to take > > it on. From my perspective as an outside observer, I think the project > > will benefit from you — the people who are at the heart of the project — > > having this discussion. > > > > For what purpose do all of you contribute to FFmpeg? What is the good > > you see FFmpeg doing? What is FFmpeg's purpose? What stands in the way > > of FFmpeg achieving its purpose, and of you achieving your own > > individual purpose? > > > > For me, several comments in the thread resonated. They have a theme: > > bringing in new participants: > > > > On 2020-07-04 08:37, James Almer wrote: > > > …Another thing worth mentioning is a lack of new blood. Despite > > > participating in GSoC for a long while, i can't name a student that > > > stuck around after the fact. Mind, there are new devs that started > > > contributing for other reasons, but perhaps not enough? > > > > > > On 2020-07-04 11:20, Soft Works wrote: > > > > > …As a developer (without a well-known name) who wants to contribute a > > patch, > > > things can be quite frustrating here. When that patch accidentally hits > > an > > > area of one the very few who are caring and friendly - you're lucky. > > > But otherwise, a patch will either be ignored or talked into infinity. > > > > > > I have a number of things to contribute, but after it didn’t work well > > > with small things, I decided not to bother with the bigger ones. > > > > On 2020-07-05 11:42, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 08:13:25PM +0200, Manolis Stamatogiannakis wrote: > > >> As a fresh contributor, setting up git send-email was a hassle, but > > >> not an insurmountable obstacle. > > > Speaking only for myself, having sent a single-digit number of patches > > > to FFmpeg ever: Setting up git send-email was not a big turnoff. Having > > your > > > patch being not responded to (whether being forgotten, not found > > interesting > > > enough, or whatever other reason) was. > > > > > > To the extent you decide that you want new participants to join you on > > FFmpeg, I'm sorry to say, I think you have a problem. My own experience > > is that this project is more hostile to newcomers than many other free > > culture projects I know (e.g. Python, Thunderbird, Gnucash, Drupal, > > MusicBrainz, Wikipedia). It's not just your rudeness to each other on > > the email lists. It's not just the inattention to patches from new > > developers. It's also a simple lack of telling newcomers: welcome, we > > are glad you are here, we want your help, we will help you learn. > > > > As someone who recently tried to send their first patch to FFmpeg, > I'd also like to +1 this. It was completely ignored, despite sending > three reminders (sending a reminder is suggested in the FFmpeg > documentation for submitting patches). Perhaps it was ignored for > a good reason, but a non-response does not tell me that, and nor > does it encourage further involvement. > > I've also been quite shocked by some of the rudeness on this mailing > list, and the level to which it appears to be tolerated (or at least, the > extent to which there appear to be no repercussions for those who > repeatedly behave in a way that I'd consider unacceptable in a > professional context).
+1 on this. Personally i didn't feel ignored and got good code review feedback. But the amount of rudeness I see on this list i think discourages people from participating. Also think gitlab or something similar would make things easier. > > > > Even more deeply, the culture of this project is focussed on checking in > > compileable code to the exclusion of other kinds of contribution: > > testing, documentation, support. Those contributions seem not welcome > > simply because they are not code, and code is all that matters. > > > > I suspect that you may find that some of the things that frustrate you > > are linked to work the project does not value. Repetitive questions on > > the ffmpeg-users list may in part result from the inadequate > > documentation, which doesn't tell users what they need to know. Feeling > > stretched thin over too much code without enough tooling might result > > from the too little of the right unit tests. And so on. > > > > I wish you success as you ask yourself these big questions. I hope it > > helps you have a more pleasant time in this project. I am confident it > > will result in a better FFmpeg. > > > > —Jim DeLaHunt, software engineer, Vancouver, Canada > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ffmpeg-devel mailing list > > ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org > > https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel > > > > To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email > > ffmpeg-devel-requ...@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". > _______________________________________________ > ffmpeg-devel mailing list > ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org > https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel > > To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email > ffmpeg-devel-requ...@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-requ...@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
