See below.
Alen Salamun wrote:
> Hi!
>
Hello. My name's Mike, aka Frank, as you may discover.
> I am really SUPRISED to see such replies like:
>
> ...I don't use it, I don't care...
> ...This should be fixed by configuration alone...
> ...mrproper should be run...
Ya, that stinks for a reply, but it helps to show that although this is
supposed to be an expert mailing list, well, not all using it are
experts. Eh!
Or, maybe the experts don't care to share their knowledge.
> Hey THERE ARE NOVICE USERS TOO!!!!! Not all are experienced in all this
>
> stuff and Mandrake should be USER FRIENDLY TOO, expecially for
> beginners!
Again, this is the expert mailing list, albeit even experts are on a
learning curve in some respects. Don't expect GOD, here, because you
probably won't find Him, here.
It's one thing to specialize as a systems administrator, or a developer
(in some set of tools and languages, albeit no one knows all), etcetera.
However, when installing Linux, doing the administration, setting up
servers, and doing development, then there's much more to know than in
typical niche jobs in large companies.
It's important to remain realistic, always and in all ways.
> And I AM TOTALLY TOTALLY CONSEARNED BY THE FIRST ONE! I DOESN'T MATTER
> IF YOU DON'T USE IT, OTHERS ARE!
Good point and friendly approach, that is, what you're suggesting or
implying, and I like friendly people. I despise stuck up people, who
remind me of something that's better left unstated, here. (I'm a people
person and therefore believe in "people building".)
> And bugs like missing utility, that is not missing in any other
> distribution (even not in .tgz) are NASTY ONES!
T'is not a bug. T'is only a missing utility.
When you get the utility and it doesn't work, because of some error
within the code of the utility, then that's a bug. There's definitely a
distinct difference between what constitutes a bug, and merely a missing
utility.
For example, do you consider MS Windows NT Server 4.0 or Windows 2000
Server buggy after installing it and it lacks MS Office, compilers,
etcetera? I'll bet 100:1 (of a non-existing money) that you don't.
Take it easy here, this is Linux and Linux definitely doesn't cost the
price of Windows NT Server, let alone Windows 2000 Server. I visited a
little computer store in Quebec, recently, and Windows 2000 Server costs
(if memory serves me accurately) around $5,000Cdn for six users, and
$3,000Cdn for five users. Conversely, Mandrake Linux, a version which
can be used for development and server, cost around $80Cdn.
Hence, get a grip on reality, here, now. That's one of my prescriptions
or recommendations, and you can send me $50Cdn for the prescription,
which comes without pills.
I can understand that you find some things don't work with Linux and or
certain Linux distributions, but don't forget that Mandrake is not
charging thousands of $$ for it's Linux distribution. You pay less for
Mandrake and other Linux distributions than you would for MS Windows 2000
Workstation, and it doesn't come with all of the server capabilities as
the many Linux distributions do; therefore, take it easy.
Otherwise, create your own distribution, which is something I'ld
definitely like to do.
There are many good things said about Linux and some web sites like
Network Computing, PC Magazine, ZD Net, and CNet, for example, contain
articles from people who've examined Linux distributions to various
extents.
http://www.networkcomputing.com
http://www.pcmag.com
http://www.zdnet.com
http://www.cnet.com
There are also other locations and I think Information Week is one, but
don't know the url off of the top of my head.
I agree that some things don't work with some Linux distributions;
however, I like to try to keep a real, clear, objective, sound
perspective about such things, especially when the alternative (MS)
solutions would cost MUCH more (which I can't afford - wallet's paper
thin, like as in one sheet of thin paper, ya know what I mean?).
Therefore, another prescription is PATIENCE, mon vieux. Know what you're
dealing with and if you're not prepared to deal with it, then leave it,
instead going for something else. I certainly don't expect the ride to
be entirely smooth, however when comparing costs, well, I'll go for this
ride any time. The little extra smoothness MS might provide isn't worth
the astronomical difference in cost.
Also, remember or learn about the history of Linux and how the
distributions came to be. Linux was not developed as some capitalistic
means to quick wealth. There was major amounts of work done by many
people around the Globe and for free.
There's much to be appreciated, but some problems therefore, inherently,
need to be expected.
If you're entirely intolerant, then you either need to move on to another
OS, or take time to tranquilize the nerves, to adjust your expectations
to what you're dealing with, realistically.
Play it as if you're part of a symphony, and all symphonies occassionally
miss on some notes.
> This is not a serious approach to develop a really good
> distribution...This SUX! Sorry I can't say anything else on such
> reply...
As per above. I agree that there are problems, but, heck, look at this
world in this way: If it doesn't work with Mandrake, then because the
price is so low, you'll be able to switch to another Linux distribution,
and you'll be able to do this [many] times before reaching the price of
MS Servers.
I don't like "biting the hand that feeds me". I'm without income at the
moment, which makes the statement a little figurative; however, even
without income, I can keep a realistic perspective. Besides, money and
material wealth have nothing to do with real reality anyway; it is all
upstairs, between the ears, i.e., in comprehension or understanding,
things money can't really generate (can buy, but can't generate).
Nonetheless, taking an exasperated perspective too quickly can sometimes
prevent a person from becoming rich, or finding a path to becoming so.
Keep an open mind at all times, about all potential avenues.
> I only hope the people by Mandrake are not thinking in such a way...
Me also; however, as per above.
Nonetheless, you could also consider this useful long term experience,
because if Mandrake people can't or refuse to do a good job, then it'll
mean all the more opportunity to start up another distribution company,
except one that is based on sharp, on the ball, people, run as by
seasoned, professional, people who know what the bleep they're doing.
Perhaps Mandrake is run by very competent people, but only lack real,
intense, people in the "trenches", and I like "intense".
I hold my reservations in every respect and am not afraid to learn from
the errors of others. A person can become rich from the mistakes of
others; it's happened numerous times before (optimism, eh!).
I'ld love to start my own Linux distribution, because I know how I work,
or my work ethic, and with good, sharp, people, could really get
something good going; however, finding such people isn't easy, because
many don't like to work and I'm damnably particular or picky. However,
that aggressiveness may eventually pay off; hasn't so far, but who knows,
maybe Linux will be my path to sailing around this planet on my own very
nice sailing vessel.
Call me Dreamer, Realistic, Open Minded, Flexible, Prepared, etcetera,
but also poor. I do like symphonic music though and it comes very cheap
or inexpensive on CBC radio. This is kind of how I look at Linux; a
major symphony composed of many, many, players or musicians from all over
this Globe or Terre.
Besides, I have Red Hat 5.1, which I've already upgraded to 5.2, and have
all I need to upgrade to 6.0 just waiting to be installed, to fall back
on.
Ha ha.
Yes, Mandrake should get their "act together". Apparently, from mailing
list posts I've read over the past couple of days, versions 6.x were
fine; therefore, give Mandrake a little time.
If you lack the patience, then perhaps you and others who think like you
will be the only ones to lose.
Otherwise, go pay thousands of $$$ for MS, and I know too well about it's
history to be willing or prepared to give it much support. Sure it
works, but [look at the history]!
I really like history, too. There are so many lessons to be gained from
it that it provides "food for thought or reflection" for endless hours.
Peace, and be PATIENT, mon vieux. Think of it as a symphony in
preparation for the grand show.
A personal message to all who are impatient, out there.
CBC radio is great. I'm listening to a very fine symphony while writing
this and it reminds me of Linux, because it's powerful, and inexpensive;
although, it does require at least a little thought or reflection, to
appreciate all that went into "it".
Ha ha, again.
