On Saturday, December 14, 2024 at 7:38:33 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 12/14/2024 3:06 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2024 at 2:32:41 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 12/14/2024 9:34 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:
> Yes. In relativity measurements are generally not frame invariant,
> such as the E and B fields in EM. But this case seems different.
> Imagine two observers, one in car frame and the other in garage frame,
> and they're both viewing the car passing through the garage, now open
> on both ends. Ostensibly, the former sees the car fail to fit in the
> garage, the latter sees the opposite. I don't believe a rigorous
> definition of "fit" will resolve this contradiction. Now I have a
> question for you and Brent concerning his plots. What EXACTLY did his
> plots ostensibly prove? AG
That an observer sitting at the center of the garage and using mirrors
to simultaneously photograph both ends of the garage will, for a
sufficiently fast car, get photographs showing both ends of the cat in
the garage.
Brent
So, from the pov of the garage, the car fits in the garage; exactly my
claim due to Lorentz contraction of car, from garage frame. I didn't
need a plot to deduce this result. Now, from car's reference frame,
the garage length shrinks due to Lorentz contraction, and for a
sufficiently fast car, it won't fit since the car's length remains the
same in this scenario. Conclusion; the frames disagree on whether
the car fits. Is this a reasonable conclusion, given that the two
observers are viewing the same phenomenon? AG
Right, the two frames have different idea of "fits". The only thing that's
changed is you've stopped calling it a paradox and a contradiction.
*Really? When did I do that? IMO, the paradox is alive and well. The two
observers are viewing the same phenomenon, so they must agree on f**itting
or not. The car does NOT fit in car frame for sufficient speed, due to
Lorentz contraction of garage. I presume you think there's nothing awry **about
frames making different measurements, in this case opposite measurements,
but I don't see why this applies in this case What's your argument for
this? AG *
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