On Monday, December 9, 2024 at 7:28:31 AM UTC-7 Alan Grayson wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2024 at 7:17:07 AM UTC-7 John Clark wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 8:05 AM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: *> Since the contracted length of the car, from the pov of the garage, can be arbitraily close to zero, as v --> c, there's no way that the car cannot fit in the garage, from the pov of the garage. But from the pov of the car, assumed to have length greater than the garage as an initial condition, the car can never be contained within the garage, as the garage length shrinks.* *For heaven sake! Nobody is denying that two observers in two different frames of reference can and will observe different things and thus disagree if the car was ever entirely in the garage or not; just as they disagree about how long a meter stick is and how fast a clock ticks. But that's not a logical paradox, that's just strange. And objective reality does exist in relativity because some things DO remain constant in ANY frame of reference, such as the speed of light and the distance through spacetime of ANY two events. * *An event, such as the closing of both the front and back doors of the garage, is a specific point in space and time, t**he contraction of length and the stretching of time are not independent properties; they always change in such a way that the garage man in the car driver agree that the distance through spacetime between the front of the car entering the front of the garage in the back of the car exiting the back of the garage is exactly the same. But because they disagreed about length and time (but not when both are considered together) they will sometimes disagree if there was ever a time when both doors were closed AND the front and the back of the car were both in the garage. * *John K Clark * 1 If that's your present position, why, when I first stated that the frames differed on whether the car will fit in the garage, did you claim the alleged flaw I described, would, if true, undermine 120 years of professional thinking about relativity? That is, why did you think I described a logical inconsistency or paradox, when now you've made a 180 degree turn on its implication? AG I don't see the relevance in this situation of the fact that the spacetime distance is independent of the path between two fixed points. Moreover, there is a fixed rate of dilation and contraction between two frames for some relative velocity. aAG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/33770229-d4ff-47a1-b1d1-a56f3520f15an%40googlegroups.com.
