On Sunday, August 16, 2020 at 4:43:20 PM UTC-5 Brent wrote: > > > On 8/16/2020 5:52 AM, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 6:27 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > *Why not adopt ultra-determinism. Since Everettians insist on strictly >> determinist evolution* >> > > Superdeterminism postulates two things, determinism and one specific > initial condition; the problem I have with it is not the determinism part > it's the initial condition. Although there are an infinite number of > initial conditions the universe could have started in Superdeterminism says > that for no particular reason (that is to say because of nondeterminism) > the universe started out in the one and only initial condition that, after > billions of years of deterministic evolution, would result in our being > fooled by every single one of our scientific experiments into thinking > that things were nondeterministic when they were really deterministic, even > though there was no reason the universe started out in that state, and thus > the entire scientific enterprise is a complete waste of time. > > > How so? Do you think Newton and Laplace saw science as a waste of time? > If the world is deterministic, then obviously it is determined by the past > (and the future) and the task of science is to determine the state at some > time and the law of evolution. Of course we can't determine the state at > some time because the finite speed of light means that we keep being > influenced by parts previously outside our past light cone. The > Everttian's (who are common on this list) insist that evolution of the > universe is deterministic. > > Your dismay with superdeterminism is the flip side of objections to > randomness in QM. When it was first proposed as fundamental by Born and > Bohr, physicists like Schroedinger and Einstein were dismayed that > randomness would make science impossible. > > Brent >
Superdeterminism is complementary to randomness in the way nonreality and nonlocality are. Superdeterminism is an uncomfortable pair of shoes to wear, and when they get to hurting too much you put on the shoes of nonlocality. Nonlocality rankled with the ordinary sense of physics coming out of classical mechanics. The loss of reality, which is just the complementarity to nonlocality in violations of Bell's inequality, does not say everything is pure chaos, and is just a quirky result in experiments that demand locality. LC > > So the universe has conspired to make fools of us all, in fact it would be > more than just a conspiracy, if Super determinism was true it would not be > out of place to say the entire purpose of the universe is not 42 as the > Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy says but instead the ultimate answer to > the question of life the universe and everything is to make us look stupid. > I find this all a bit hard to swallow. > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3Qb%3Dmfe%3D6kq1UZ%3D_up5FN1vN5Kfm9g6wNDHu%3D_OV3S_A%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3Qb%3Dmfe%3D6kq1UZ%3D_up5FN1vN5Kfm9g6wNDHu%3D_OV3S_A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c20601eb-d214-437d-b1e2-7167ed9e8038n%40googlegroups.com.
