On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 3:07:48 PM UTC-5, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 10:10:14 AM UTC-5, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 9:58:37 AM UTC-5, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 9:45:21 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 15 Jun 2019, at 19:37, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 12:10:48 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 6/15/2019 12:29 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I've basically lived my life believing what I want, I think. >>>>> I'm not trying to *convince* anyone of anything. >>>>> >>>>> One thing I might try to convince people of: >>>>> >>>>> *Physics is fiction.* >>>>> >>>>> Vic Stenger would have said "Physics is models". >>>>> >>>>> There are always alternative models, and new ones likely coming in the >>>>> future. >>>>> >>>>> To find *reality in a model* (to make truth claims in the vocabulary >>>>> of a model) is a form of religious fundamentalism. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You say you're not trying to convince anyone of anything, but you >>>>> repeatedly slap pejorative labels on other viewpoints. You use them like >>>>> Trump uses nick names. I avoids actually making an argument against them >>>>> while disparaging them. >>>>> >>>>> So in this specific instance: Where do you look for reality? Or do >>>>> you suppose there is no reality. If you trained a neural network so that >>>>> it could produce all the predictions about physics problems that the >>>>> community of physicists do, would it be just as good as the theories it >>>>> replaces? >>>>> >>>>> Brent >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't criticize other theories. Any theory anyone want's top pursue >>>> is is fine. >>>> >>>> It's just the Physics Gestapo I criticize. >>>> >>>> >>>> It is not physics Gestaop. Only physicalist gestapo, or the usual >>>> confusion (Aristotle basic philosophy) between physics and metaphysics, >>>> which is incompatible with Mechanism. >>>> >>>> Bruno >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The Physics Gestapo apparently treats lightly those who say matter >>> comes out of arithmetic. :) >>> >>> @philipthrift >>> >> >> I can't remember the moniker on this, but there is a signature of an >> email discussion gone bad when people start invoking Nazis. There is no >> Gestapo here. The problem is frankly you are most likely wrong; these sorts >> of deformations of QM have a consistent history of not working. Just >> because people such as Price keep banging their heads on this does not mean >> it is alive --- more like beating a dead horse. Please stop using Nazi >> references. >> >> LC >> > > > But you avoid the question. > > Why does, whatever you want to call them, > > * Physics Fundamentalists* > > [ those with "a point of view characterized by a return to fundamental > principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by > intolerance of other views" -- freedictionary ] > > is better, go after the retrocausal people and not the many-worlds people? > > @philipthrift >
I generally do like these discussion threads when they pass the 100 mark and start to paginate. So if I do not address any of the posts from today or yesterday that are relevant this may be my last entry here. The difference between a retrocausal theory and a quantum interpretation is that a proper quantum interpretation does not violate the postulates of QM, while retrocausality does. Such interpretations, and they are multiplying like rabbits these days, are auxiliary physical axioms or postulates meant to make sense of how quantum outcomes of measurements obtain. Retrocausality means there is a classical underpinning to QM which would mean the statistics should obey the Bell inequalities. Experimentally this is known not to happen, and quantum mechanical reasoning illustrates why. If there is a hidden variable that is a classical observable that can be accessed that determines QM and apparent nonlocality, and most importantly this is experimentally demonstrated I will change my stance on this. LC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/79e56e38-7b0d-4bb5-a453-5a8efe6ff78a%40googlegroups.com.
