On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 1:34:31 PM UTC-6, howardmarks wrote: > > ALL well-conducted experiments for psi (even experiments to test for > "spontaneous occurrences"), NO exceptions, has ZERO hits - except for > unprovable personal claims of "subjective experiences" like Cosmin's and > Grayson's. Any positive "reports" are either *anecdotal*, very terribly > performed under non-falsifiable hypotheses, or the statistics of small > numbers. The article Cosmin gave below from NIH is typical. Extremely > important tasks that an honest experimentalist needs to do are to use a > large N and properly randomize (if statistics are employed), which are > seldom done. And, as Cosmin's article reports, often not taken adequately > into consideration are the candidate "telepath's" recent experiences before > the experiment that might color the results, like "habituation", "priming", > facilitation, recall, and emotional experiences, etc. And, choice of > targets for candidate "telepaths" needs to be neutral, not, as Cosmin's > article suggests for instance, that "a target is a photo that candidates > should "psychically" decide depicts "happiness or sadness" "ugly or pretty" > or whatever.... Bad targets don't allow randomizing to eliminate all types > of emotional "noise." > > Intentional or unintentional LYING by the experimenter (stretching the > data by the authors to support their beliefs, "cherry picking", rejecting > data, again to support the author's beliefs, etc. are often never filtered > out from a so called peer-reviewed "report." NO, THE STATISTICS, FOR > CAREFUL RESEARCHERS, MANY PhD's and university degreed people, is ZERO. And > often experiments that were redone to "confirm" a reported "hit" also > turned out to be misses when fraud by claimant, cherry picking data, etc. > were eliminated. > Precognition? *How is it that truly anonymous precognition hotlines on > the internet, on which predictions are published before the world and > eliminate fraud, lying by the claimants, has a hit or miss score of ZERO > hits (??) with 100s of thousands of submissions, maybe millions*?? (I > gave one link to a representative hotline elsewhere in this thread).* > Even one hit would bring it off ZERO*. Of course, a rich oink could have > made a prediction of some catastrophe, and later paid to cause the > prediction to happen --- but even that didn't happen... 5 or 6 figures to > ZERO score for precognition. It doesn't take Wheeler to figure out the > statistics and p for a score of zero to any number.... > > I am qualified to report on what I say above and elsewhere on this thread, > as my father was a die-hard believer in PSI and I tried to help him find > people that could demonstrate.... Early on, as now, I kept/keep an open > impartial mind to new evidence. I met Randi, CSICOP, CSI members that way, > traveled to a few conventions the believers had, in hopes of finding even > one person who could demonstrate PSI. Nyet. ZERO. Boo hao.... Is love > excluded for these people and organizations? You will find few individuals > with more love than those looking scientifically for a hit.... sorry > Cosmin... > > But, Cosmin, the "proofs" you say we (you) are always receiving that you > believe are "proofs" of telepathy - are definitely not telepathy - and if > you are honest, you might see they are misinterpretations of "rapport" and > "indentification," and other physical communication between > individuals.... This is super easy to show - as for instance, if you > claim to be communicating/ psychically communing with your girl friend, > then it's easy to set up experiments to isolate the experiences from chance > and external influences such as (but not limited to) both of you seeing a > web news story (or renditions of such), even far removed, as internet is > international, and reacting to it - then posting on facebook... etc.. as > you suggest..... And if you are honest, you gotta count EVERY non-hit as > well as the hits when you tally a score.... The non-hits gotta be dozens > per day. You are likely labeling experiences you have as "psychic" when > they are actually your "stream of consciousness," ala' Dr James Joyce (also > a psychic researcher), working overtime....... > Cheers! Howard Marks >
*I disagree with Cosmin. The proofs are exceedingly difficult to come by, primarily because the experiences invariably involve specific emotional states of the observers, sort of like a dream in the way the communication occurs. I would doubt the phenomenon can be shown by simple minded experiments involving statistics and predictions, like what card will turn up in many trials. I can recall three such experiences I've had, none of which I could reproduce due to the special circumstances. AG* > > On 10-06-2019 11:51, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > You are always receiving proofs, but you always mindlessly reject them > because you are indoctrinated. > > Bem did some experiments proving precognition. 90 other experiments , > replicated those results. So where are those "ZERO people" that you > talk about ? Fake news much ? > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4706048/ > On Monday, 10 June 2019 12:45:28 UTC+3, smitra wrote: Prove your points. > On 6/10/2019 7:24 AM, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 10:19 PM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com > <javascript:>> wrote: > > >>> *I've had a few "telepathic" experiences* >>>> >>> >>> >> There is a new job opening for a good telepath, the pay is very good >>> and the benefits are terrific. You know where to apply. >>> >> >> *> We're not sufficiently evolved to make these phenomena occur by an act >> of will. They usually occur when the observer, or chance, sets up the >> subtle prerequisite conditions without knowing exactly what they are.* >> > > It doesn't matter how rare it is, if the phenomena existed at all it would > show up statistically if you performed enough trials. And every single day > millions of people bet on the lottery and it's easy to calculate how much > money the state should make on average each day if the telepathic effect > was zero; and every day that is indeed what turns out to have occurred. The > outcome is always consistent with the telepathic effect being zero. States > are so certain of the consistency of this revenue stream they base their > budgets on it. > > And it's not just the lottery, the next time you go to Los Vegas take a > look at all those big beautiful casinos and ask yourself where the money to > build them came from. It came from the pockets of people just like you who > thought they were telepathic and could beat the law of averages. > > If it were real the existence of telepathy would have been demonstrated to > EVERYBODY'S satisfaction centuries ago, but instead we are rehashing the > same crappy anecdotal evidence we were centuries ago and going nowhere. > > John K Clark > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everyth...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2wCvm0zfSp%2B-0FzkLmC1_6L_%2BoRvNvA%3DULQqADo%2BPzcw%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2wCvm0zfSp%2B-0FzkLmC1_6L_%2BoRvNvA%3DULQqADo%2BPzcw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/cd9d5072-d99b-4fe8-af07-4e352be1638b%40googlegroups.com.
