On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Telmo, > > No, compression is totally unable to explain the storage of total > information in a universe which continually doubles its amount of > information from one Planck time to the next and continually adds that > amount to the cumulative total. > So you're essentially claiming that the universe is increasing exponentially in complexity? > > Edgar > > > > On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 8:17:28 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Brent, >>> >>> If information is not being lost then the amount of information in the >>> universe is increasing at a tremendous rate as new events occur, and has >>> been since the beginning. So where is all that new information being >>> stored? How can ever increasing amounts of information be being stored in >>> the SAME amount of matter states? >>> >> >> By an increase in Shannon entropy, up to a point. >> This is why you can compress computer files, for example. >> >> Telmo. >> >> >>> >>> Presumably you do agree that information can't just float around somehow >>> without actually being encoded in actual matter states? >>> >>> I think I know the answer but would like to hear your take on it >>> first.... >>> >>> Edgar >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 8:57:57 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: >>> >>>> On 3/18/2014 5:07 PM, LizR wrote: >>>> >>>> On 19 March 2014 12:47, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> But in general that would mean knowing the state of everything the >>>>> system had interacted with in the past, since it is now entangled with >>>>> them. So even if you suppose there is no collapse of the wavefunction, >>>>> decoherence has the same effect. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I was only asking about the theoretical possibility, given >>>> unrealistically perfect information about the state of the system. >>>> >>>> >>>> The universe (assuming unitary QM) is reversible. In fact from the >>>> standpoint of QM there is no arrow of time - it's deterministic, just like >>>> Laplace's universe. So, as always, when the word "possibility" is used >>>> there has to be some context. To *calculate* a history of the universe >>>> from it's present state would require knowing its *complete* present state, >>>> including your mental state. Is that "theoretically possible"? I think it >>>> involves a paradox of self-reference. >>>> >>>> To put it another way, in the Game of Life, even with perfect >>>> information, you can't trace the state of the system backwards because it >>>> loses information. So even the laws of physics couldn't work backwards in a >>>> universe based on the GOL. QM, I'm informed, doesn't lose information, so >>>> (very much in theory) you could work backwards - or (less in theory) the >>>> laws of physics could. >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes the universe doesn't lose information like the GoL. But relative >>>> to any point it loses information across spacetime horizons. So there's no >>>> way to gather that information up into a calculation unless you have some >>>> God's eye view from outside the universe, in which case you could see the >>>> past anyway. >>>> >>>> There's a couple of nice papers about this by Yasunori Nomura: >>>> arXiv:1205.267v2 is a popular exposition and arXiv:1205.5550v2 is a more >>>> technical paper. >>>> >>>> Brent >>>> >>>> >>>> I wasn't asking whether I could build a chronoscope and watch the >>>> past happening on TV. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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